UMSL @ 60 - Mariah Huelsmann

Name: Mariah Huelsmann

Date of Interview: December 7th, 2023

Location: Zoom

Interviewer: Polly Rekittke

Project: UMSL 60th Anniversary Alumni Interviews

Audio file

audio1711444165.m4a

Transcript 00:01:00 Polly

Hi. 00:02:00 Polly

Hi, how are you? 00:03:00 Mariah

I'm alright. How are you? 00:04:00 Polly

Good. Thank you. Sorry about the technical difficulties that's happened to me too before, it's so like. 00:05:00 Polly

Yeah, zoom can be. 00:06:00 Mariah

It's an old computer too, so I've had it since I was at UMSL, so. 00:07:00 Mariah

So it's like 6 years old. 00:08:00 Polly

Oh my Gosh 00:09:00 Mariah

Which is old for a computer, a laptop. 00:10:00 Polly

Yeah, yeah, I think my computer is like four, three or four years old and I'm like, it's time to get a new one. 00:11:00 Mariah

Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:12:00 Polly

They’re not, they don't last very long. 00:13:00 Polly

So thank you so much for taking time out of your day and joining me. I really appreciate it. I am recording this. Of course, I'm just using the zoom recording function. 00:14:00 Mariah

Yeah. It let me know that. It let me know that it says recording yeah. 00:15:00 Polly

Ok. If you hear it meowing, it's my cat. I really hope she doesn't ruin the audio, but she's just very vocal. She's not in distress, she just like, gets excited at night time and she. 00:16:00 Mariah

Nice I, um, that sounds like my cats. I have two cats. We fed them early dinner tonight, so hopefully they'll be sleeping. 00:17:00 Polly

OK. They'll have that, like, post-dinner nap. 00:18:00 Mariah

Yeah, yeah. Otherwise they would be yelling at us at 6:00. 00:19:00 Polly

Oh yeah. Are they doing that because they’re hungry or just because it's night time? 00:20:00 mariah

Because they want to be fed. 00:21:00 Polly

OK, yeah. My cat’s not, like, she's, she doesn't even really like care about food, which is weird. Like I feel like that's. 00:22:00 Mariah

That is weird. 00:23:00 Polly

Like she eats, but she just kind of grazes, but she just, as soon as the sun sets, and until the sun rises, that entire dark period, she's just like running and jumping and screaming. 00:24:00 Mariah

Got the zoomies. 00:25:00 Polly

OK so, why don't I go ahead and get formally started if you're ready? Because I I kind of mentioned I'm recording you, but I have a couple of formal things to say, so. 00:26:00 Polly

My name is Polly Rekittke. It is December 7th, 2023. It's 5:30 PM. I'm interviewing you for UMSL’s 60th Anniversary Alumni celebration, and so can you state and spell your name. 00:27:00 Mariah

Yeah, I'm Mariah Huelsmann and Mariah MARIAH And Huelsmann is HUELSMANN. 00:28:00 Polly

Are you saying, is that Huelsmann? 00:29:00 Mariah

Yeah, like a hill. 00:30:00 Polly

OK, Huelsmann, easy I was trying to do, 00:31:00 Mariah

Yeah, yeah, the, the, U and the E throws everyone off, but it it makes I, I sound. 00:32:00 Polly

Got it. 00:33:00 Mariah

I could see I could see your cat. 00:34:00 Polly

Oh, yeah. She's she'll probably walk across the computer at some point. I will remind you that you are being recorded and I don't know if I've mentioned this to you, but we do have a release form that if you're comfortable signing at the end of the interview, I will send your way. 00:35:00 Mariah

OK. 00:36:00 Polly

That way and we we usually don't, in oral history interviews, we usually don't do that until the end because we want to make sure that you're, you have an awareness of everything you've said and you're OK with signing it after having said everything you said you know, so I've got it like half filled out and you just need to fill out your half, and I'm gonna e-mail it to you after the interview, and you can take a few days or whatever. Just fill it out. 00:37:00 Polly

All right, so are you ready to get started with the interview? 00:38:00 Mariah

Sure. 00:39:00 Polly

So I've got a couple of different sort of life categories that I'm going to ask you questions about. And the first one is your origin. So I am wondering where were you born and where did you grow up? 00:40:00 Mariah

OK, I was born in Saint Louis. And then I've grown up pretty much in Alton, IL Right across the river there. 00:41:00 Polly

And where was your family from? 00:42:00 Mariah

This area. So my mom's family is from kind of the Southern Illinois, St. Louis region, metropolitan, you know, Edwardsville, Saint Louis region. My dad's side of the family is from. Clinton County, Illinois, which is about an hour from Saint Louis. It's all farmland, but. 00:43:00 Polly

Ok, nice. 00:44:00 Mariah

My mom’s side of the family has been in the area for while, since at least, at least part of them since the 1860s. 00:45:00 Polly

Wow. 00:46:00 Mariah

And my dad’s side of the family has been in the area since the 1850s. 00:47:00 Polly

Wow. 00:48:00 Mariah

And they came over from Germany and they went up a Steamboat up the Mississippi River from New Orleans. 00:49:00 Polly

Oh my Gosh. 00:50:00 Mariah

To Saint Louis. And then they didn't stay in Saint Louis, just immediately went to the countryside, to be farmers, my dad's side of the family are all farmers. 00:51:00 Polly

Yeah. Is that is your last name from your dad? So is it German? 00:52:00 Mariah

Very German, yeah. 00:53:00 Polly

That's very cool. I I know that a lot of Germans ended up settling in sort of Missouri, Illinois area 00:54:00 Mariah

Yeah, cause it apparently it looks like Germany. [?] It's kind of, and I I can see that, I can see that. How it could look like Germany. 00:55:00 Polly

Yeah, definitely. You kind of touched on this, but if you want to elaborate on your heritage? You could talk about your mom’s side as well. I know that’s a difficult question to answer. 00:56:00 Mariah

I'm almost entirely German. I got some Polish in me, from my mom's side, I mean, literally my dad’s side. It was it was Germans coming over to America and then they married other German immigrants who then married other German Americans. And then it just went all the way down in that tiny little farming town until he married my mom. So very German. Probably like 75% German and then I got a little bit of mutt mix for my mom, my mom has a little bit of, OK, so who's just like maybe, she's maybe half German, but she's also got like 25% Polish. She's got a tiny bit like 1 Irish ancestor, 1 British ancestor, you know. Kind of all intermixed. 00:57:00 Polly

That’s interesting, you do, you have you seem to have more of a high percentage of like one thing than a lot of white Americans. Like I feel like I'm like a lot of ittle things, but you've got a lot of German. That's interesting. 00:58:00 Mariah

Right. Yeah. Both sides of my family. We have, I mean, myself included. But my aunts on both sides are really into genealogy, so that's how I know, you know that, you know, really specific. They have them all the way back to, you know, generally the 1800s, yeah. 00:59:00 Polly

So you said you're you're also interested in genealogy? 01:00:00 Mariah

Yes. 01:01:00Speaker 1

OK, hopefully I'll be able to ask you a little bit more about that. And then what do you consider your ethnic lineage or nationality/nationalities? 01:02:00 Mariah

UM, nationality. Uh, born here, so American. 01:03:00 Polly

Perfect. Now we're going to talk about your family background. So what were the names of your parents? 01:04:00 Mariah

Christine Beluski and Gary Huelsmann. 01:05:00 Polly

Where were they born? 01:06:00 Mariah

My dad was born in Clinton County. Well, Trenton, Trenton, IL, and my mom was born in Edwardsville, I believe. 01:07:00 Polly

And what did or do they do for a living? 01:08:00 Mariah

My mom was a contractor for a paint company Co-op. She doesn't do that anymore. Pretty recent, but she's an artist. So what she did as a contractor is she would go to different universities, including UMSL, and teach and be a guest art teacher and teach how to use products and stuff. So now she mainly focuses on her own artist Career, but also she's the founder of a nonprofit called Faces Not Forgotten. You might have heard them on the news. It's a art social justice project that paints portraits of children murdered by gun violence. Because eight children a day are murdered by gun violence in the United States. She started this in like 2009, 2010 and so she has like 9 quilts for Chicago alone and that's eight kids per quilt and she doesn't paint all of the portraits anymore. She gets other artists to volunteer to do portraits. And then the families get the original portraits and it's copies that are printed on kind of like a banner material. So in November here she was actually at the Kennedy Center. In Washington, DC, with, I don't know, five or six of the quilts from different areas. Actually I think most of them were from Washington DC area, but she definitely had one from Chicago and at least one from Saint Louis. And you know, went through the whole gun violence Remembrance Day that happens in Washington, DC every year about November, 1st week of November. So that's what she does. 01:09:00 Polly

That is impressive. 01:10:00 Mariah

Yeah. My dad is has a masters in social work and he's the CEO of Caritas Family Solutions in Belleville, IL, so it's a foster care agency. It's the largest in southern Illinois. They have about 1000 kids in foster care. But they also do. CILA homes, which are specialty homes for people with mental disabilities, so group homes, but they get to go to like, it's more specialized kalcaree. They also have in Belleville the John Bosco Center, which is a home for, it started out for boys, but now they have a separate section for pregnant teenagers. But for kids who are in the foster care system, who can't, who have severe behavioral issues and need to be rehabilitated before they can be put into placement. So not all of those children get fully rehabilitated. But that's the point of the home. It has severe, like, pretty intense therapies and and stuff like that. It's a success if they can be placed out of that home. So he he's the head of that organization. 01:11:00 Polly

OK. Gotcha. Thank you for, for such a detailed response. Did you know your grandparents? 01:12:00 Mariah

Yes, my my grandmas are still alive. 01:13:00 Polly

Oh, wow. Can you give me the names of all of your grandparents and what they did for a living? 01:14:00 Mariah

Yes. So I'll start with the ones who are dead. My mom's father, I never met him. He died 40 years ago. No 41 years ago. He died in 82. And he's from the area. And his name was. Joe Aluski, and he was a pharmaceutical salesman. So they they had lived in, you know, Edwardsville. And they had lived in Kirkwood. And then for a little bit, they lived in chicago area, Lake bluff. And then they came back to the Saint Louis area. My other grandpa, he's been gone 11 years, and I miss him very much. I love my grandpa. My dad's father, David Huelsmann. And he was an accountant for Scott Air Force Base. He wasn't in the military himself because as a kid he had a tractor accident and lost part of his leg. So he had crutches his whole life, but he's definitely part of the reason I went into the field that I went into. History and and anthropology and and museums and stuff. He's been gone 11 years. My mom’s mother, Uh, her name is Gail Eisenhart. She she had divorced my mom's father before he died and uh, she's back to her maiden name now, Eisenhart. She was born in Saint Louis. Grew up in Riverview. Took the bus to the trolley to walk downtown. She had two younger brothers, one of which died this year, so she. She's very independent. She's a poet. And she's going to be 87 this month. And she's doing good. She's doing really good. She never got to go to college because she basically had, you know, she was born of that generation that her brothers were expected to go to college, and she was expected to help them pay, to go to college, but she couldn't go to college herself. She's extremely intelligent, but it's just not how it worked. So she's been various different things. She worked for the government when she lived in Mississippi, Biloxi, Mississippi for a long time. Because you know my aunt and uncle, so they’re a couple years younger than my mom, so they they grew up, did high school in in Biloxi. My mom did high school and Kirkwood. I don't know what the government job was that she did. She's been secretary uhm, she's been, she worked at the library. She retired and then at 80 she was bored, so she worked for the library in Belleville, so that’s my grandma on my,my maternal grandmother. My paternal grandmother, her name is Florence Huelsmann and she had been married to my grandpa for almost 53 years when he died. And she currently has dementia, so she's in a memory care home and she's younger. She's 84. And she was an accountant as well. And she ran a office supply store in Highland, IL. Which is literally on the edge of Madison County and Clinton County. Madison county is where Alton is and Edwardsville and Edwardsville has SIUE. Anyway, so. So they also they were also landlords, they had rental properties too, but she ran office supplies. she was the manager of it for decades. And then she sold it to a chain office supply store, I don't know when I was a, a little bit before their 50th wedding anniversary, I guess. They would have been. Married 63 years this year if my grandpa was still alive. 01:15:00 Polly

That's wild. 01:16:00 Mariah

Yeah, those are my grandparents. 01:17:00 Polly

Thank you again for such a good, detailed response. Do you have any siblings? 01:18:00 Mariah

I do. I'm a twin. So I have twin sister. We are not identical. She's much taller than me, and brown hair, and we're very, very different in personality, too. I'm the older twin. I’m older by 19 minutes. Actually we would have been triplets. But my mom lost one really early. 01:19:00 Polly

OK. 01:20:00 Mariah

Very different. She lives in the area, she lives in Belleville. And she's a civil engineer. She's all about the math and sports, and she did volleyball and basketball and all that. And I am not a sports person, and I'm, you know, obviously anthropology, museum studies, history, you know, etcetera, etcetera, very different people. She just got married this year. So I have a brother-in-law now. In May. His name is Joey. Oh, my sister's name is Chloe. It's Chloe and Joey. He works on cars, well first, actually I guess he got a business degree from SIUE . I actually don't remember what his degree is from SIUE, but, and he first owned his own phone repair business. Yeah, I can. I can say I have a brother now. I have a brother-in-law anyway. Uh, because I always used to joke. Uh, my sister has a brother, but I don't, because my older sister has a brother, but I don't. 01:21:00 Polly

We’re going to have to unpack that. 01:22:00 Mariah

Yeah, yeah. 01:23:00 Polly

Sister, your twin sister? Do you have other siblings? 01:24:00 Mariah

Yes, I have one other sister. It's my twin sister and my older sister. My older sister is 11 years older than us. 11 1/2 years than us. She's our half sister. We saw the same mom my mom was married beforehand when she was very, very young. Married at 18. Divorced at 22, 23, and then she married my dad when she was 30. Anyway, my older sister is now in the area, which makes me so happy anyway. But her dad went and had a son. So that's where, her dad, he lives in Wisconsin. And she's 18 years older than her brother. She sort of has lived all over the place and she’s in Urbana Champaign now, but starting in January, she’ll be in Alton for the first time in like 23 years. So yeah, because when we were when my twin and I, when we were seven, she transferred from SIUE to Eau Claire in Wisconsin and she moved with her dad. And so then she was in Wisconsin, for a couple of years and then she moved up to Minnesota and she was in the Twin Cities 15 years. So we only got to see her about twice a year. For holidays usually. She had been married, my sister, for, she doesn't have any kids. We don't miss him at all, the ex-husband, anyway. And then she moved to Seattle. She was in IT all these years, she had a mathematics degree, and she was in Seattle until about two years ago. And then she decided she didn't want to be IT anymore. And uh, her name is Amber, by the way, and she decided to go to law school. So she's going to be a lawyer. She's going to graduate with her law degree from Urbana Champaign in May. 01:25:00 Polly

Oh my gosh. Amazing. That's really impressive. So is it Amber? And then you and then Chloe, for birth order? But you and Chloe, it's a matter of, you guys are twins. One more question about your family growing up. Did you spend much time with extended family? 01:26:00 Mariah

Yeah, I did so my parents have a lot of first cousins Chloe and I, we have six living cousins. We had seven. We had seven cousins. My, my one cousin died 10 years ago from leukemia. It was just his, uh, it was just his birthday on Sunday, so he would have been 27, but he died when he was 16. Anyway, we did a lot with him and his sister as kids because they were my uncles, they were adopted. They were adopted from Guatemala. Both of them. My dad only has one brother. It was his kids, and they, they lived out by my grandparents and we stayed at my grandparent's house for weeks at a time. In the summer time and and went there almost every weekend, so of course we saw Anna and Garen a lot as well. Usually at my grandparent's house, cause they owned, my grandpa owned a hobby farm. Because he got to retire at like 55 from Scott Air Force Base. So then he just decided to be a hobby farm-ist and he had llamas and goats and sheeps and he bought a property that used to be a frog fishery, they, like raised frogs on the property. The property was called Frogtown. My grandma sold it about nine years ago. So we always did tons of stuff out there, made blanket forts and all that stuff, and my grandparents, would be very tolerant. My grandpa would be sitting in his chair watching his documentaries and uh, which is partly why I I got into history and stuff because he was watching documentaries all the time and the rest of the living room would be covered with blankets and impressive blanket forts. 01:27:00 Polly

Ohh my gosh. 01:28:00 Mariah

Well, unfortunately, because my grandpa died and then my cousin died the next year, not as close to that family anymore. His younger sister kind of, obviously she was very close to him so. And then my mom has a brother and a sister. And they’re five and seven years younger than her, kind of a difference, but all of my cousins are really close in age to me so. There's my oldest sister, Amber, and then it's me and then it's Chloe, and then a week later is a cousin. A year later is a cousin. A year later is a cousin, year later is a cousin, so. The youngest will be almost 22 in December here. 01:29:00 Polly

I see, I see, I see. 01:30:00 Mariah

I'm 29. 01:31:00 Polly

I didn't ask you that, so that's good to know. 01:32:00 Mariah

I graduated from UMSL in 2018, so. 01:33:00 Polly

Gotcha. I do, I do have some UMSL questions in a moment here, so we will be asking about that, but a couple more about your childhood. So this question is where did you grow up? I think you said, Alton. 01:34:00 Mariah

Mhmm. 01:35:00 Polly

How did your neighborhood shape your childhood? 01:36:00 Mariah

OK, so my neighborhood in Alton, where my parents still live is, uh, pretty cool, actually. It's in the historic Christian Hill area of Alton. So we're right on the bluffs. You look right over the Mississippi River. My parents house was built in 1898. And uh, most houses on that street are from similar time periods up until probably the 19-teens. And uh, I always like to tell people that that neighborhood is like a 1950s neighborhood. Because all the neighbors have various different parties throughout the year that all are invited. We have Christmas parties, Halloween parties. Uh, 4th of July parties. Uh music parties, Boxing Day parties. You know, everyone sitting out on their porches half the time and that's only been within the past 15 or so years. When I was really little, it was kind of fluctuating. We didn't know some of the neighbors that were really like, really kind of uh, the 1950s neighborhood that it is now, they didn't come in until about 15 years ago. My street, my childhood street is the destination for trick or treaters. In in Alton. 01:37:00 Polly

Oh my Gosh. 01:38:00 Mariah

The pandemic has changed that number a little bit since, but before 2020 we got about 300 to 400 kids. Because the whole street decks out and my one neighbor directly across from us, hires live bands, fire pits, a Maui actor who shoots fire out of his mouth. For trick or treating night and then she has a big party. Like that's what she plans all year long and. You know, we wear whatever she says the theme is because. So they [?]. Ohh and my dad, so he plays cards with the neighbors at least once a week. Various different neighbors. It's a game that Chloe and I were taught by my grandparents, my dad's parents, it's called hand in foot. And it's kind of like maybe Canasta or Rummy or something. It's kind of a complicated game. It takes a long time. I don't know how the neighbors still play with him because he wins. Who is ever his partner, he, he wins and he's very, very, very competitive, but they still like, I was just over there the other night and we're just watching TV and, and one of the neighbors texted? She's like you wanna play a game of cards? Like you know, Thursday evening. OK, it was like in the middle of the week and we were like, no, I'm too tired to play cards with you guys. During the pandemic, my parents tore down the gazebo that was in their backyard, and they built a cabin. 01:39:00 Polly

Ohh wow. 01:40:00 Mariah

It looks over the river, so that's the card cabin. 01:41:00 Polly

Ohh my gosh. 01:42:00Speaker 3

So it's all card themed. 01:43:00Speaker 3

So that's, they are, like I said, 1950s people on the porches. Uh, you can borrow eggs from your next door neighbor. Uh sugar. A cup of sugar. I've done that. Playing cards every week. We'll have bonfires, you know. Somebody has bonfires and everyone just hangs out. 01:44:00 Polly

That sounds like nothing I've ever experienced. 01:45:00 Mariah

Right. It like, yeah, that's why I Like to say 1950s because you just don't experience that anymore. 01:46:00 Polly

That's really cool. One more question about , or, a couple more questions about your childhood. So what were your friendships like in childhood? 01:47:00 Mariah

I usually had just a few, you know, best friends. Like I had two. And one was since I was four years old. And she was 2. But that kind of ended in high school because she betrayed my trust a little bit, but uh, so that was upsetting. But the other best friend, who I've known since, we're the same age, since I was like 8 since, we were eight years old. She likes to say 6. Somewhere around that time, we met at school. But she actually only lived like 2 blocks away from me. Yeah, so she's like a sister to me. I don't see her very often. I don't hear from her very often anymore. She still lives in the area. But that's just how it's always been. It could be months before we hear from each other. So, she’s in the area. But, otherwise, I went to a private Catholic middle school because when Chloe and I were about to go into middle school, Alton decided to condense all of the small middle schools into one giant conglomerate of a middle school. And I had been ill for a couple of years, and so mom’s like, mom and dad's like, mm-mm. Now my my best friend uh, she also went to this middle school. We walked to it, we walked home. I mean they dropped us off in the morning, but we just walked home because it was right down the street. It was the Catholic Church we went to. 01:48:00 Polly

I see. 01:49:00 Mariah

My family's very Catholic. I don't go to church anymore. My twin sister does. She goes in Belleville with my grandma and my aunt, uncle. They all live in Belleville. 01:50:00 Polly

OK. 01:51:00Speaker 3

My dad works in Belleville. But, so, you know, got confirmed together got you know First Communion. So that's a pretty strong heritage. My dad almost became a Catholic priest. So I'm really glad he didn't, cause I wouldn't be here. Yeah, so, um, we actually have family friends that we, the family’s known for decades and decades and decades that are all priests. Not diocesan. That's a big difference. I don't care for diocesan priests. I'm talking like SLU, you know, Jesuit priests, oblates. So I still have some, some of those guys. But my my friends, we played barbies, we played, that's pretty much it. We played barbies, dolls I have a doll on my buffet. She's a China doll. 01:52:00 Polly

She’s darling. 01:53:00 Mariah

Probably from about 1880. Yeah, I collect them. 01:54:00 Polly

Ohh my gosh. That’s cool. 01:55:00 Mariah

Since about 6th grade. So the goal is to be in like a toy museum or something someday. But anyway, so we played Barbies mainly. And my other friend Eileen, who I'm still close to, she had a big brick wall in front of her house. So we would just hit tennis balls against the wall after school, and we played foosball with the foosball table in her basement. Her pool, we had a ping, we had a ping pong table on a pool table and she had a foosball table. So a little bit more sporty, or not really too many barbies with her. But the other girl? Yes, I spent most of my summer, barbies, same with my twin sister. But see, that's the thing is, I really only had the two best friends. Because I had my twin sister to play with my whole, they actually had to separate us in preschool because we weren't making friends. We did two years of preschool. We went, we went, we did like the early, we joined, we went to preschool when we were three. You know, so we did three and four and then, we did like the early childhood kind of preschool thing. Partly because we have our own language, and so they needed us to do speech therapy. 01:56:00 Polly

I see. 01:57:00 Mariah

Anyway, high school, Chloe, you know, had a lot of friends with sports. I joined Thespians, and I did backstage and I was in one play. So I had like three friends from high school. Because Eileen, she went to the Catholic High School. We went to the public high school. 01:58:00 Polly

I see. 01:59:00 Mariah

In in Alton. Uh, so Alton High and then, uh, our graduating class was about 400 something kids, that's pretty big. So I had, like, three people. I mean, obviously you have acquaintances and stuff on Facebook. I have to keep track of have to keep track of how many are married and having babies now. Like, we just had our 10 year high school reunion in the summer, so that was interesting. Oh Joy. But anyway, because pretty much all of the people that were on the student council—I was in student council, Chloe and I were in student council—were all very very, very pregnant at the reunion this year. I mean like the student body president was pregnant with her second child and ready to pop and they had it outside. In August. It was out, it was in the evening, but it was in a like, inverted garage space at a restaurant that was turned into, like, an outside patio. So it was all that stagnant air. And the restaurant they picked has a ballroom for events. But we were outside. So that was interesting. I definitely have a lot more closer friends from from college. Actually undergrad, not grad school with UMSL because, uh, you're in the museum Studies program, right? 02:00:00 Polly

No, I'm in the history program. 02:01:00 Mariah

OK, anyway, it’s a small group of people so, you know, friendly, acquaintances with all of them, obviously because it's a small world, but, you know, no one that really became best friends. You know, a best friend. So my childhood was pretty much more, I like to do more one-on-one with with friends. I wouldn't really like to be in big groups. 02:02:00 Polly

Gotcha. 02:03:00 Mariah

That worked out. 02:04:00 Polly

You kind of talked a little bit about this. The question is how did your relationships with your siblings affect your upbringing? If you have a general response to that, you can. But I also wanted to include in that if you wanted to elaborate on the secret language, or the made-up language. What was that? 02:05:00 Mariah

I mean, we were toddlers, so I don't remember the actual language. But you probably hear my voice. I Have a little bit of a, people think it's an English accent, but I'm not English and that's just a residual from from having to go to speech therapy until we were in like third grade, both of us. Hard to say R’s still. No, I mean my, my older sister, she left when we were seven, and she hasn't been back to the same state as us, until two years ago. And her ex-husband was very strict about when we could visit and we could only visit for maybe more than no more than four days. Umm, so we only saw her twice a year, sometimes. Usually it correlated like the one time of the year was usually like the day or so after Christmas, you know, but not actually Christmas. When she got divorced, she got divorced nine years ago or something, then then we got to see just a little bit more, but still she lived in Twin Cities Minneapolis, Saint Paul, and that's about a 10 to 12 hour drive. It's an hour and a half plane ride, but plane rides are expensive. So. I think part of that is, she's a wonderful person. She's always laughing. She's always getting us to laugh, all of this. And it was her and her neighborhood friend that taught us how to walk by basically running with us and then letting us go and having us run into the couch. Because that's what older sisters are for, right? You know, abuse of the the, the babies. 02:06:00 Polly

That's wild. 02:07:00 Mariah

Oh, and we would walk on her back to give her massages and she played all kinds of instruments, so she had all kinds of pets. You know, an animal, so she had bunnies and a snake and hamsters and on top of that, we've always had a cat. My parents just have one cat right now. We had adopted 2 together, but the other one had like died a very traumatic death. 7 or so years ago. She was not a very smart baby, and she was about 5 years old and she electrocuted herself. From a socket, she stuck her tongue in a socket. When we were on vacation in London. So we get back with the jet lag, and it's like midnight, but it feels like 6:00 AM, you know, because we just came from the UK and we couldn't find her. So now, whenever we go on trips, I demand pictures every day because my friend had been watching both the cats and she had seen them every day except for that last day. Luckily, she didn't find her. But now, I’m like, I want proof of life, of my cats, every day, please. Cause one cat’s 5 and the other one's two now. but the cat that’s still at my parents house, she's kind of a nervous little Nellie. She's 13. Anyway, they weren't from the same litter, they were a month apart, but they had been fostered together, her and the other Kitty. Anyway, so I I definitely would say that having my older sister, barely getting to see her made us really stressed about wanting to spend as much as possible time with her when we actually did see her. Like I always felt jealous if I would walk out of the room to use the bathroom or something and they'd all like suddenly start laughing and and I'm like, what am I missing? Because it's like every second counts because I only see her 8 days out of the year for most of my life ,so that's been really nice the past two years. I've had just keep thinking to myself, I could just, she just comes down for the weekend whenever she wants. You know, she's busy with finals right now. So that's really exciting. 02:08:00 Polly

That's amazing. Yeah. 02:09:00 Mariah

And then she's gonna be In Altonito finish up her last semester next, in January because she's doing an internship in Clayton, MO, here and my parents also have rental properties, so she's gonna be staying in one of those. I'm like, Oh my gosh. She's gonna be literally like 2 blocks or something away from where I live now for her job. So like we could just have dinner whenever, just random Tuesday night. I'm pretty excited about that. 02:10:00 Polly

That is so exciting after so long. Thank you for that answer. So oh, was college something you thought about while growing up? 02:11:00 Mariah

Yeah, that was always, we've always been top students, Chloe and I. Straight A's. So college was automatically, yes, you are going to college. And we took college credits in high school through Lewis and Clark Community College, which is in Alton. So, when I started undergrad, I was technically a sophomore, when I was a freshman. I finished my undergrad in three years. 02:12:00 Polly

Oh wow. 02:13:00 Mariah

I know, I know. The majority of the classmates of mine from UMSL are all 20, 30, 31 now and I'm one of the babies. That's because I finished my undergrad in three years and then and then the museum studies program at UMSL was a two year program. Was a two year program. So it's always been a thing. My grandma was the 1st in her family, my dad's mother was the first in her family to go to high school. 02:14:00 Polly

Oh wow. 02:15:00 Mariah

Because she said well, you have to give me an education because I'm going to become a nun and I need the education. So she went to a Catholic boarding high school in East Saint Louis. 02:16:00 Polly

Ohh my gosh. 02:17:00 Mariah

Uh, she wasn't ever planning on becoming a nun. It was just a reason to get an excuse to let her parents continue past eighth grade. So and then she, but she didn't, she didn't go to college, either. Generational thing, but my my grandpa, he went to college, to be an accountant. And my other grandpa, who I never met, also went to college. My mom is a few credits, maybe a a dozen credits short of a Masters herself. But she was a single mom and circumstances, and she had to [?]. It was a Masters in Fine Art, but she has a bachelor's herself and my dad has a masters in social work, so definitely academic minded family. 02:18:00 Polly

Yeah, it sounds like it. 02:19:00 Mariah

And you know, of my cousins, uh, two of them have not completed, started college, Have not completed college. I don't know if they'll ever go back. But the rest of them have either graduated now, because they're pretty close in age to us, or like the youngest, he'll be 22 in December, here, he's graduating from Mizzou in in May, and that's the last cousin to graduate. Pretty much everyone. Very academic minded family and extended family because my aunt and uncle, well, my uncle, he teaches for SLU and my, my mom's uh brother-in-law and his wife, her sister, works for MSD Shore District, the Missouri shore district here and, makes for interesting discussions at family holidays, academically. But no, it was not even a question if we were going to do college but. I was never, never a question. Wow. It was like you're going to figure out a way. You're going to get scholarships. We did. I got a scholarship that paid full. Two years or three years of tuition for SIUE’s and the last year my grandparents paid it from their trust and you know my grandpa had been gone by then but. And then, I know we got stipend for the museum studies program, but we were supposed to have tuition remission in the museum studies program. And then when my group was about to start, I'm talking like August 2016, we were literally about to start they’re like ohh, you don't get tuition remission anymore. 02:20:00 Polly

Ohh goodness. 02:21:00 Mariah

So I commuted from home, from Alton. Other than your graduate research assistance, if you want allowed to have a job in the museum studies program here at UMSL. 02:22:00 Polly

That's wild 02:23:00 Mariah

You weren't allowed to have an additional job, it was the graduate Research Assistant and your school was your job. Like, that's a little tricky. Because my entire stipend goes towards my tuition now because it's not tuition remission. So that was a little frustrating. 02:24:00 Polly

I'm sure. 02:25:00 Mariah

To be, to be honest. 02:26:00Speaker 1

I'm going to go into the education section and there will be some questions about UMSL. Some of these questions I think might assume that you went to UMSL for undergrad, but you went for grad so I will try to switch them up so that they're grad but first, where did you attend elementary and high school? 02:27:00 Mariah

So I went to two different elementaries because that's how the the grades were segmented. So I went to one building for first kindergarten, first grade, and then I went to another building from 2nd to 5th. Anyway, so the the kindergarten first grade was JB Johnson. And what's funny about that, no, no, was Gilson Brown was Gilson brown. And JB Johnson was where I went to preschool. And what's funny about JB Johnson is JB Johnson, by the time I started high school was where JB Johnson used to be. So it was like a full circle. So JB Johnson was like a single hallway building. For preschool, and they built the high school on top of it, so that single hallway that was in JB Johnson became a basement hallway in the high school, and my freshman year, we were the first to second group to actually, go all four years in new building. It was kind of funny like ohh circle. So Gilson Brown, kindergarten 1st grade and then West Elementary, which was literally down the street from where we lived. I mean, we still we still rode the bus and stuff because it was a little bit of a walk, you know, it was probably about 15, half an hour walk, OK, but occasionally we'd walk home with an adult, you know. And then middle school was Saints Peter and Paul School, which is not in existence anymore, the school shuttered a few years ago. They just didn't have enough people. There's another Catholics grade, there's a couple of Catholic grade school and middle schools in the area but like one is Saint Mary's and they are huge. They have hundreds of kids, so that's where everyone went. So St. Peter and Pauls is just it's just an empty building now. The church itself is having trouble having the congregation to be open as well. Which is a bummer, but it’s kind of their fault because the priests that they keep putting in that church since I was about eighth grade are not great. And that's partly why I stopped going. 02:28:00 Polly

Ohh I see. I see. 02:29:00 Mariah

I went to that 6th, 7th and 8th grade and then Alton High, which ironically is technically in Godfrey, which is the village of Godfrey. But they all kind of run together, but the new building is in technically, Godfrey. And then the middle school is in the old high school building. Which is like a campus. So you have middle schoolers crossing the parking lot to get to classes. That that doesn't sound like it going to be great for discipline and and you don't really want middle schools hanging out in the parking lot and doing things. But OK. So that's, that's where. So I went to. You know, 5 different schools. JB Johnson, Gilson Brown, West Elementary, Saints Peter and Paul, Alton High. So from 3-18. Uh, Chloe and I were some of the older group because our birthdays are in October. So we were in that will weird year where everyone before November got to vote at 18 for presidential election and everyone else couldn’t and had to wait another four years before they can vote for a presidential election so. 02:30:00 Polly

Oh yeah, so you voted in your? 02:31:00 Mariah

We we got to vote, yeah. 02:32:00 Polly

Wow, what, Do you remember what election that was? 02:33:00 Mariah

2012. 02:34:00 Polly

OK. Did your K. through 12 prepare you well for college? 02:35:00 Mariah

I’d say so. I mean, not the Catholic middle school because the science, we were top students in the science teacher was all like, no, you have to do basic freshman biology when you start because you're not going to be prepared. Oh my gosh, we took freshman biology, it was the most boring. We were so like. Bored out of our mind. So we took honors sciences after that, but. No, but uh. You know, the education was questionable. But also we had to do like, you know, only pencil for math in the Catholic school. You know, we had very traditional teachers, and cursive for everything else. Even spelling tests had to be in cursive. Uh, so, so you get to you get to high school and and you know, I have my, you know, cursive writing and all that. And I'm in math class and the teacher's writing with a pen, the the math stuff. And I was like, OK. But I would definitely say my high school uh prepared, prepared, uh prepared as well. I mean, for starters, we we took dual credit classes with with the local Community College and then. And took honors classes. I'm not a math person, so I did not take honors math, but Chloe did because she she became an engineer, but no. Uhm, anatomy class, which is eseful for college because I had to take anatomy class again. Uh with my undergrad anyway. So and I had some really, really great teachers in high school, like real, like mentor level like. Fantastic people. One of them, he was a history teacher. Mr. Call Day and uh, he died four years ago. He wasn't very old, but he was kind of a large guy and. Heart problems and. He actually died in July of 2020, but it wasn't from COVID. It was from there was some heart problems, but. So he taught class so. Well, the history that that was also another reason why I was like, OK, I'm gonna go. For history, for my undergrad anyway. But I did anthropology for my undergrad. But. UM. And then the other teacher was our French teacher and we had them all for years. Mr. Green and he lives in Chicago now. He teaches in like. A suburb of Chicago, uh now, but uh. Also fantastic Guy. Facebook friends with him, you know, wish him a Happy birthday actually. Birthdays coming up and then really because he's really not that much older than my older sister. So he was like a baby baby face when we. Were freshmen. Ohh, he had to have been like. I don't know. He was very young, 30, maybe Babyface anyway, but UM. He is pretty fantastic. He has a partner, he has a, who we got to meet, you Know few years ago and they live up. And it's pretty great because he's from Louisiana, but he completely is able to swap his accent. Back and forth and. Back and forth and he would do that in class, would talk normal and then he'd talk how He'd talk. When He's on the phone with his mom. How do you do that? Because a language teacher, so I guess this just came naturally. French language teacher and you know French, Louisiana, I mean, come on. Yeah. I mean, he lived in. Northern Louisiana, but Louisiana is French. So that's where he did. He went into tiny little moldy basements and. Looked over French documents of libraries that had never been digitized, and luckily he digitized them. Because then Hurricane Katrina came and destroyed them all. And whatever he saved for his, his undergraduate is. All they have. Left of these writers, poets and stuff from southern French, Louisiana Cajun Creole. Really he really prepared us because you have to have a a language. Aspect for the museum studies program that you can take a test of proficiency test and that just covers you for the rest of the program. You don't take classes if you pass the proficiency test, so I just took it your friends and and. Not so bad. So the the the history teacher and the French and the French teacher. Really, really prepared us because the history teacher he taught, he spent the entire school year slowly breaking down how to write a college level research paper. 02:36:00 Polly

Ohh my gosh. 02:37:00 Mariah

And he had various different, you know, due dates, you know, note cards, you know, annotations, you know, and so forth and so on. Over the whole year this. Is our junior year of high school and. And uh. So then, by the time you came back from Easter break. You should have your complete. paper. It's 15 pages, you know. Classic size, decent size. You know 15 page. For high school but. Because I definitely know that when I started undergraduate, there was definitely kids in, you know, English level. That that were like. How did you not learn how to write a research paper? Because. He really prepared us how to write a research paper. And I still. Fall back on him. Uh, when I when I started out. And then, you know, obviously my teachers at SIUE we had some of the old styles to to add. To it, but. I still [?]. With the papers in grad school, like some of the people, people like. How did you get this far? You're you're writing a paper that looks like grammatically like a high school paper, and you're in grad school. But that wasn't too common in in grad school. It was a really common in undergrad. It's kind of shocking how, Anyway, so I don't know. Elementary I have a a mentor like teacher from 2nd grade who I'm Facebook friends with. She's like I won't Facebook friend anyone until you're 21. And uh, she taught and me and my friend Eileen. We were in that class together. And miss Lowe. And she uhm. She taught a sign language. She taught the class sign language, so I still remember a lot of sign language because. The younger you. Are when you learn sign language, you remember for the rest of your life. Same with languages. And we did a class play and that was the first time I. Got introduced to. You know. I was the zookeeper. I was the lead. In the class and I leaned and then everyone else was the animals in the zoo. Ohh the 2nd grade OK, but uh. So Eileen was an ashbridge. So Chloe had a different because pretty much from preschool on, we will never allowed to have the same. In a grade school, it was a kind of a war. No twins could be in the same class. That changed in middle school because it was the same 20 kids for every class for all three years. Which middle school is already rough? Then you're stuck with the same 20 people for three years. Brutal, really, really brutal. I don't have, like. No, thank you. Don't need to repeat that. And then in high school, you know, we had some some. Classes together but. She went more. Towards a science math aspect and I did more Arts theater history. I mean we. Obviously don't have a single class together. Uh, so we Susan Engineering building and I was in the anthropology history. But um, sorry. Yeah, I was very long winded. I'm sorry. About that. 02:38:00 Polly

Don't worry about it. You're you're. You're a good storyteller. You're really painting all these great pictures. 02:39:00 Mariah

Thank you. 02:40:00 Polly

The next question you've already answered, but I think you want to ask and answer just so that we have it for sure. So did you attend any other college before going to UMSL? 02:41:00 Mariah

Yes, SIUE. 02:42:00 Polly

All right. What led you to Choose to attend college at UMSL? 02:43:00 Mariah

It was the only College in the whole region that had a museum studies grad program. So that’s why. Otherwise I would have to go to Chicago or. Far away. Yeah, it was the only one that had a. Well known. Well respected, very well set program. In the area, say we now has sort of a museum studies grad program. But it's kind of in in its infant stages still, you know, so. I took some museum style classes and upper level anthropology classes because so UMSL’s museum studies was under the Anthropology Department until about 2013. 02:44:00 Polly

OK. 02:45:00 Mariah

And then it was moved to the history department. I don't know. Ohh because. They didn't let me take. Upper level anthropology classes at home school because it wasn't. I'm like but. But you guys will literally just under this like a few years ago. So let me take some apology level classes under the under you know under it but now. They wouldn't let us. Do that. But we weren’t, my group. Got kind of. I'll go into more detail and probably with other questions you have, but we got a little bit screwed over unfortunately. My specific cohort anyway. 02:46:00 Polly

We definitely have a question in which you. Can elaborate on that. Yeah, it'll be a couple questions from now, yeah. So what led you to Choose--Oh wait, I just asked you that, did I? What led you to? Yeah. You said it was the only program in the area. So what was your knowledge or perception of UMSL before you became a student? 02:47:00 Mariah

Not not much, because. It doesn't get the fanfare that Mizzou does, and on the same system, so. It it you know, it's not a football, it's not the party, you know the Mizzou is and I like that. I'm like, I really like that. And LSU is also not a football college either. And that makes a big. Difference in what? What the schools focus on and spend money on? Because if it's. A football school. All the art stuff will anyway, but. So I didn't know much. I mean, I knew. I thought the name was kind. Of weird. I'm sure it's better than SLUM. I think. I had been to the Touhill for some outside entertainment thing when I was a kid, but that's about it. I guess the perception was just just. Kind of like. Personally, I didn't think it was fairly nice like it was more people tweeted it more like. There's nothing wrong with community. Colleges, but it definitely the the the the sense. That you kind of got growing up. Is it was? It was. Yeah, that kind of that, that school you. Know it's it's. Just like ohh, you're not going to the zoo, you know. You're not going. To WASHU or SLU it's umm so. And and that and that's what I had. Sort of perceived. You know, in high school and stuff. 02:48:00 Polly

Yeah, yeah, definitely. 02:49:00 Mariah

It's not, it's not Webster. Still, it's not WASHU, it's not SLUso poor old UMSL, got kind of The short end of the stick in people's perceptions of colleges. In Saint Louis. 02:50:00 Polly

Yeah, sounds like it. This question, I don't, did this, did your perception have any effect on you choosing to go to UMSL? I know you said it was kind of not. Really a choice, but, 02:51:00 Mariah

no, it wasn't really a choice. I didn't really want to have to try to because we weren't allowed to have a job. I didn't really want to try to manage rent in some strange city. When I could just stay at home. And and commute. Because I definitely know some of my other cohorts classmates, are from like Wisconsin, OK? And they they chose some sort of the program over a Chicago program. So that says a lot too. I know she's from Michigan, but anyway. Now she's back in Michigan, but. Yeah. So. I I just knew. I knew it was a really good program. It was well respected. It looks like it's. Doing well now the program, but like I said before. Our group kind of. There was a lot of departmental change and stuff that went on and it kind of threwthe program, under the bus a little bit. But no, my perception did not really because I didn't really have a choice. That was the only Master's Museum studies program in the whole area. 02:52:00 Polly

Yeah. Ohh goodness. 02:53:00 Mariah

So that was not in an infant stage because the the scary thing about infant programs. Is they could just. Stop. Lose their accreditation like that. Well, like poor Fontbonne, Fontbonne is cutting like Half of the programs. I live really close to WASHU. Now, oh, this is kind of funny. 02:54:00 Polly

No, you're right. How was your first year at UMSL? 02:55:00 Mariah

There's definitely baptism by fire. Everyone that I know who is considering going into a masters like it is not like undergrad folks. It is. Are you in the grad history program or the orthe undergrad right now? 02:56:00 Polly

I'm in undergrad. 02:57:00 Mariah

Oh, OK baptism by fire, Polly because it is grad school is not like undergrad. You're reading like 700 pages a week and writing 20 page papers a week in grad. School. Don't do that. Undergrad. We're plenty in our read plenty. Lots and lots and lots. Because of my field but. Definitely. So that person's semester. It was kind of funny. It was like, OK, I, you know, naively thought, oh, I could totally date and be in grad school at the same time. No, I I tried today. That first semester. No, that doesn't work. My my current boyfriend, I met a few months after I graduated from grad school. So. But uh, unless you already had a long term boyfriend before you started grad or married, even before you started grad school, you don't you live under a rock in grad school. All those Internet memes that were popular between 2016 and 2018. I'm just now like. What is that? Ohh, that was so. Popular on the Internet. Really, when? Uh, 2017. Ohh, that explains it. Yeah, my my sister knew I was alive with Snapchat. Ohh, so. And and. My graduate research assistantship was at the Missouri Botanical Gardens. And the ethnobotanical side of it to the collections, the ethnobotanical and ethnobotanical is, UM. Items made from plant material which? Is pretty much everything other. Than plastic. OK, I mean baskets. Clothing. You know, cotton clothing, not potty stuff, but. And UM. And I had that graduation the whole time and. My my immediate supervisor at at the garden. To be fair, she had had a traumatic brain injury a couple years before she met me also. No, the the calculators. At the time. I've gone to people who specialize in specific plans, the botanist, the head botanist. Anyway, they do not the title. I mean, they either die, although like in the 80s before they retire. Partly because, though that. Focused on the study of, though, that they love it that much. Because Missouri Town gardens, the second to two two gardens in the UK in the world. Second, in research on plant resource in the whole world, so you have you have partners from around the world who come here and which is probably why they can get them to be paid so poorly they're paid horrifically. It's the second top Botanic Gardens in the country in the world, so. Anyway, she was a little bit of. Uh, Doctor Jeckle and Mr. Hyde personality. So that first semester I didn't know if I was coming in to her hating me. Or praising me. 02:58:00 Polly

Ohh yeah. 02:59:00 Mariah

It was just me, a lot of the other graduate research assistants that's had multiple people for my program, at least two, and they could work together, you know? It's just me. I'm stuck with her so. Uh grad school was very, very stressful, learned, very interesting stuff. But like I said, hold to that that first semester. Gets you a taste of totally baptism by fire and that's why I really told my older sister and she agreed and she went to graduate law school. But she's like, yeah, the master is is brutal. And you don't have time for extracurriculars. You can't be part of. Clubs. You know, you don't have time for that. I'd still say that fall of 2017 was. In terms of, I had some really awful teachers. And and other factors. Because I never got discriminated against or harassed by teachers at SIUE. I got discriminated against by teachers at. Grad level teachers. 03:00:00 Polly

Ohh my goodness. 03:01:00 Mariah

Yeah. So. But OK, so in the fall of 2017, so that, you know, the the third semester. I uh, we did a program where we got to take a class at SLU with UMSL tuition. Which is pretty nice. There's like six of us, but that was one of the teachers. She was a slow teacher, but the same. Yeah, I had another teacher that was an online only teacher. And I saw that he's not part of the Department of History anymore. So I think that's kind of interesting, but he was the head. Of the history department. At at at Umm, shop at the time. And he did uh online class of. Mexican history. History of Mexico. Really fascinating crowd, really. It was all great until the end of the semester. And then he. Was being really creepy over email. Sexually. So he's like, how are you meet me in my office alone. Like he specifically said. I'm like you are a grandfather. 03:02:00 Polly

Ohh my. 03:03:00 Mariah

You have grandkids and are married to a. Woman, you. 03:04:00 Polly

I am so sorry. 03:05:00 Mariah

Yeah, I'm like I have. I ran into, like, near the end of the semester because we it was all online, so. I ran in from a coffee shop in the demand neighborhood, you know, off the Skinker and UM. I think it went downhill from that. Because it was. Like you, you know you want to come meet me. In my office, just you and me. No, thank you. 03:06:00 Polly

Good on you for holding your ground. 03:07:00 Mariah

Yeah. So. I I don't even remember. His name anymore. But anyway so. That was interesting. Ohh. Now the one good thing about UMSL about the classes is. It's so much shorter to walk to the classes than it was at SIUE. SIUE is on the sprawling designed by a Japanese American that designed like. You know, stuff like Pasadena. So he's expecting nice weather, so all the sidewalks are not straight lines, you know, they're just. Dilly dally, you wouldn't. You want to enjoy the sights? Well, when it takes me 15 minutes to walk to class and it's -2° outside. Uh. From the domes? Not fun, but the nice thing about. I'm sure is like a park walk through a building, walk through another building over a courtyard and I'm in my classes and it was like maybe 7. Minutes and you're so happy. 03:08:00 Polly

Oh my Goodness. 03:09:00 Mariah

And yeah, so. 03:10:00 Polly

So you you've already alluded to this. This is a three-part question. You can just kind of answer. How you feel. So it's what was also like when you went there, what were some of your memories of everyday life on campus and how involved were you in campus life? 03:11:00 Mariah

OK, so not very involved in campus life because I'm so doesn't have a theatre department. Maybe they do now, I don't know. But they definitely did not have a theater department when I was there, and I had. So there was no improv groups to join or am I was part of improv groups and the student experimental theater organization SIUE. And I was looking forward to being part of. Groups like that. At UMSL but. You guys have the gorgeous Touhill And you don't have a theater department. Anyway, so there's no improv or theatre group to join and. I tried to join the Catholics student body. And that lasted for about a semester the first semester and then. There was this very, like, very conservative Catholics, and that's just not who I am. I tried but other than that there wasn't really student life things that we could do because as a commuter, I was. You know, 270 always have accidents, so I didn't usually take 270 I would take. Lindbergh and Hanley. Just took me 45 minutes to. Get to school. So it's not like I was going to be there past my classes other than to maybe get some food from the cafeteria and and. And I hear that you guys have really impressive cafeterias in your dormitories. But the cafeteria at the time in the main building. It was OK. You had you had Pizza Hut. Ohh. To know in grad school you're not. You don't really get to be part of a student life. You don't have time. You just don't have time. I did take some Tai Chi classes with the gym and that was really fun. Wow, that was really cool. Like Ohh I definitely tried to be part of of things, but I live far away and. You know, readings. Under a rock I was living under a rock anyway, so. No, could only be a student body. Show my I really, really nice memories from my. My final exit project, my grad exit project and. I did a show at the planetarium. I animated it all. And put it to my own. Put it to various different. Scripts that I had different people read. I had a friend make a song for it. It was. Of Body and Blood: Ethnoastronomy of Orion and Ursa Major. So it was. Anthropological stories of what different cultures see when they. Look up in the sky. And UMUM. And I focused on the constellations of Orion. And ursa major. And I had three different stories. I had a classic Greek. You know Orion with the with the lion and and anyway. And his his belt was the three stars that make the constellation. And I did a Mongolian. Story, which was Ursa major. And this Mongolian group. When they looked at Ursa Major, you know they didn't see the big Dipper, they didn't see a a bear. Which is, you know what we see Ursa Major as a big bear. They saw it as skull cups. It UM this this father. Had eight sons. 7 seven sons. And uh, the Princess the Mongolian Princess had. Them all murdered. And those skulls turned into wine goblets, and then as she drank from each wine, she tossed it into the sky. And that's how you got Ursa. Major, that was my favorite one to draw. Oh my God. And then the third. Story I wanted to do a Mayan. Story too, and I started drawing Mayan You know hieroglyphs and and whatnot, but I. Didn't have time. But the other story was uh Hidatsa. Was just a Native American group. And UM. But the. Do you have three people? That you you work under for your A museum. And so I had doctor David Hohn. And he was the UM. He was a physics professor. But he ran the. Planetarium at the time he's in Pennsylvania now. He teaches in in the college. In Pennsylvania, but UM. Really wonderful guy. Because you're literally weekend. I'm talking evenings every possible thing weekend I'm in a dark. With one other person. So when I first started I was like ohh this could be bad because I'm in a dark planetarium with a man. But no, my worries were completely unfounded. He was really sweet. I mean, you bought your lunch. I had to figure out picnic level foods because there's no place to be refrigerated. But I was there all day on the weekend, you know. UM to animate it and he taught me how to how to put my images up to animate them. UM. Add he did one of the speaking parts I had. A friend from SIUE a theatre friend from SIUE do another speaking part and. It's really cool. And then the. Other professional at it, but I I looked. Hours and hours and hours with this man. Really sweet. So I I. I still text him happy. Thanksgiving and Merry Christmas and stuff. Because he wants to. He had wanted to take the soul to a planetarium conference A. Few years back. It it didn't happen, but maybe someday. And then I had. The Native American curator, the assistant Native American Curator at. The Saint Louis Art Museum. Alex Mall. He was the third person and I'm blanking on the name of the other professor. She was like the head of the. Department of physics. But obviously I'm blaming it on her because I barely saw her or barely interacted with her. So I didn't interact with Alex Mall that much either, but I did consult him about it. And he still he still curator at the. He stood the assistant native American curator at the Saint. Louis Art Museum. Wow. So that was really. Even though it. Was like, oh so much time. I'm talking from, like, October 2017 until April, when I showed the Planetarium 2018. But those were really nice ways and it was really cool to work in the planetarium because. For one. No other College in Saint Louis has a planetarium. You have this Saint Louis Science Center planetarium. But I'm pretty sure SLU and WASHUjust use the science centers. They don't have the. So that was really cool because I had no idea that we had a planetarium, even when I was there. And then I was looking at ideals, and I discovered that we have a planetarium at the end. And I was like. Actually, that sounds really Fascinating. So I got to learn all this technical stuff. That that last semester of grad school. Was a lot of fun. First semester, baptism by fire. Last semester, you're very, very busy. I didn't have. You know too many classes. You know the last semester and one of the teachers I had. I'm blanking on her name. She was also fantastic. She teaches the. Because the kids that will in whole class will mix up. History grads and museum studies, grad and and she's the one that taught about. Our public heritage and discourse and and. And UM. And we we we. Did projects about. UM. We we picked. Different areas and we we had discussions about. Everything from the Holocaust to racial identity to the disability rights movement, every every week you had to write. Uh paragraph. How we wanted about all readings and then and then another person in the class would then comment. And I have a. Whole you have to comment everyone's everyone's discussing with your own facts and pull from the readings and whatnot. But since you're so she's so. It's like you can write however you want to write because it was like a message board kind of style. OK, so pretty early on I decided to write all my thoughts and poems. To I get my my poetry skills for my grandmother. Say runs in. So I will. And like, really like deep poems about all these serious topics we were talking about, you know, everything, the Holocaust to. Genocides to to. Anyway, so and like I said, pretty much almost all the topics of early class and all the and. And I'm so we're really fascinating and they didn't allow me to take classes. So you know that teacher was awful and discriminated against me and was hostile to. There's six of us in the class. OK. And she. Was really hard on me. But the topic some of the talks and we got to take a class at the Missouri History Museum and we created, uh, an exhibition for the Missouri History Museum. 03:12:00 Polly

Oh my gosh. 03:13:00 Mariah

We created. Flores Mexicanas: A Lindbergh Love Story that was up at the History Museum from. UM. Ohh June of 2019. It was only up for four months because of some of the stuff was um. But it was a fully. Put on exhibit that we wrote, the entire booklet for our class. And then turned it in for them and they tweaked it and and whatnot. But uh. UM. That was really cool. That was fall 2017. So we, our teacher. Was one of the employees, was an historian. At the History Museum and then he left right after Umm and went to Pennsylvania, and then he just came back to the History Museum. This this, this fall, young young guy and. And he didn't. He wasn't a teacher in the sense of a supervisor because we did all the stuff, and he just sort of was like, OK, let's get into, you know, groups. Let's read this stuff. But the the whole class was to create this, this exhibit and to then to present it to the department. At the end of the year in December. And then so then you know we all got to we all got all pixel up on the wall at the entrance cause it was it was in one of the the you know new exhibit spaces at the History Museum and so. That was really. And and well, OK. It was really fun doing the research. Some of the kids in my class will very petty and we had two lip readers in our class. And they decided to talk about those people mean things about those two people. In front of them in class. So there was a little bit of drama. You know, whispering to each other. But they could read it the lips so. There was some. Cliquey stuff with some of those, but. I have my own. I mean, I, me and two other people were in exhibit labels team so. We wrote all the stuff. The three of us. Well, OK, the two of us. Because the one kid. I don't know froze up or something and we had to sit with him and. Not allowed to just do some labels. I'm so sorry. I I I just totally dropped the ball on, like, yeah, we took over all of it except for. Just a little bit, but we'll we'll try to walk you through it, but. OK, I guess I can switch forward. But it's pretty much meaning us on the call vote, majority of the stuff. And then the other teams will like the design marketing. So forth and so on. And that the meeting, the main goals were in the marketing group, so they were trying to tell us what to do with the labels we're like, oh, you're not writing the labels. We're writing the labels. So you can't take over. We all have a stake in this. Like I said, some of the. I'm acquaintances with them all on Facebook. You know, I congratulate them on their marriages and you know babies and. UM. But just some grading says, you know, some of them are wonderful, but they look forward, you know, and. But it's just such. A small world in the museum field that you. Don't want to make any enemies. And you know, and the nice. Thing is, I was like. OK, we will grad students, but some of the stuff is very childish. UM. You know what I can see on Facebook? You know, maybe they've matured a little bit better and been a little bit nicer. Maybe they're a little nicer in real. Life, but I don't know. Haven’t seen them. In in person. Pretty much since. You know, those opening of the Flores mexicanas and and and? I did an internship in the summer of 2017 with the History Museum and I helped do research for the Mighty Mississippi exhibit that was up. That was up for nearly two years. Oh my gosh, the curator. Who Is like my boss. With the best boss I ever had. He he died. This year. He was also not very old. Well, I had some some great teachers. At UMSL and some not so great teachers. An interesting mix. But the memory will from from. Some of the research really fascinating, we we did, we did a class with the Magic Seth Manson here and and. And we did research for her. It's a. It's a privately owned property, but she does tours. So that's what I really liked about the program. I'm so is that they had all these. Like deals with other other things. So it really was. And then we're. Trying the best with with the with the. With all the. Shifting that was happening at the time, but UM. Still pretty pretty great program for to allow you to take class at SLU. With UMSL. Tuition and. Take a class at the. History Museum and and. You know have special tours at. The Art Museum and and. Do special research for. The Magic Staff mansion and. There were other classes that other. House museums. But I I didn't have room for them based off of the other classes I. Wanted to take. Like there's the Campbell House that I know some of my classmates took classes for. But UM. And actually this songs hold, but I haven't actually been to the Campbell House. It's. Like not that. Far away, but I just, you know, the pandemic showed up. I don't this is this happened? I plan to plan to I really love the Eugene Field Museum and in Saint Louis here it's a toy museum. 03:14:00 Polly

I don't. I don't think I've even heard of that, toy museum. 03:15:00 Mariah

Right outside of the stadium. 03:16:00 Polly

OK. Gotcha. 03:17:00 Mariah

Eugene Field was at children's author and his father was the lawyer for Dred Scott. So it's it's, it's a, it's a toy. Museum but. In his childhood home. One of the last houses in that area and they just added a huge extension to a model that has, you know, accessible toilets and stuff, because the main house, there's no elevator in the main house, it's in the storage house from the 1800s, early 1800s, like 1830s. Yes, those are my good memories. 03:18:00 Polly

Gotcha. Yeah, that was great. Very good answers, very detailed. I have one more question relating to education and it's just to give you time, if you wanted to, to go back and talk about what you alluded to earlier, the question is, were there any particularly unpleasant or challenging experiences during your time on campus? Anything that you felt kept you from having a good experience or accessing the fullest education? You could have had. I don't mean with the, I mean. You can talk. About whatever you want. But I mean, when you were saying that you came during a. Transition time, You wanted to revisit? 03:19:00 Mariah

Well, OK, so all of us had been told this program, you'll get a job in the museum. Field when you graduate, it is that good. Also, tuition remission, we're about. So I mean, we're like 2 weeks away from starting classes and we're like, we're dropping the tuition remission and you have to pay for it. Like OK. UM. So they had just hired. A new director uh. From Harvard. That summer, 2016. And UM. She quit in the summer of 2017. She was there for a year, but that also means that she quit in the middle of a two year program. So. So for our last year. We had two professors that were Co directors and they were very they were very academic minded. And I don't. Know what they were thinking because they obviously. Think that nothing short of a professorship is worth it for this this degree, but all the all of us went into this degree to be curators, to be to be in museums, OK, not just curators, but you know. All the other aspects of to look in museums, not to work in a university. That that's the goal of this program and. So, you know, coming near the end, so is the two of them were a little snobby and that, you know, nothing's better than academic, like, literally the assistant curator, He's already a curator. OK. He came to the. Graduation party that one of them hosted for us. And she just kept going on and. On like because he was getting his. PhD at the. Time and she's like, ohh sure you're gonna leave some museum and and take up with university position. She's like, no. And she she kept informing that. But that wasn't the goal to be a curator. When are you going to go to a university? And that was a problem because. None of us. Maybe, maybe two or three got jobs in the museum field right away. I asked for letters of recommendation for job positions, you know, and she, she said. Uhm the only? Letter I would write to is for position for research assistant. And I'm thinking what was the point of my masters? If you won't even let me. If you only will write a letter of recommendation for a research assistant. Was how both of them just. Like, what was the point of my masters? Because I was a research assistant. For two years. With with the Missouri Botanical Gardens with the Missouri History Museum. I don't know what you're thinking the goal was, but it was a little weird. It's like, what was the point? Of my masters, if you wouldn't even. So the majority of us lost out on that immediate job were full. They literally had promised us all that with the job before. It took me months and. Months and months to get a job. And I started in January of 2018 and I didn't get a job till November of 2018 at the local gallery. In Alton. So they kind of screwed us over with that. Now to be fair, that Lady, she did help me with. The drama with my boss at the Missouri Town Gardens because the my boss Missouri town garden. I think she's still there. UM. She had me crying. She woke me really hard. All most of the other kids. Went everywhere from one of the graduate research assistant was at the gallery at UMSL. And and all she had to do was sit at the the front desk. And she could. Do her homework during her graduate assistant hours. I'm like, that's you're not gonna. Get anything from that? The other ones? Those they were doubled up. And two people to a place and. They maybe did a little UM. Postal board exhibit for some things, but they got to share the responsibility of it. My I was late to my own graduation party by the department. Because while everyone else was done with. Their graduate research assistance at. Uh, a week ago, a week or two weeks before that? My boss was working me that day and was trying to pressure me into working until October of that year with. Half the stipend I was getting. That's because we were working on a grant. And the grant ran out in October. It's a grant I helped write to win. The very first semester of 2016. I also got super sick around Thanksgiving. I still came into my graduate research assistant and worked all day. With the splitting headache. Because she had given me so much trouble for taking the the day early on that week because I couldn't get out. Of bed it was. That sick. And she she wouldn't let me down because. We were we were writing a grant and its deadline. Was in December. We, we wrote an IMLS grant institute of museum and Library Sciences Grant, which is a nationwide grant, and we won it. But this this this co director she. Her husband walked as one of the botanists. So when I had one too many times of. My boss belittling me because like I said, she I didn't know what I was coming in two weeks days. Some days she was praising me to the high heavens and the other days she was yelling at me over the phone anyway so. The the Co director did help. Settled that in that I could not have a conversation with this boss without another person present, including phone conversations, because it was one time it was me and they already pulled up one guy to be. With me and we were going to go to the elevator. Because we were in the Monsanto building, which is now the. Ball building. It's right across the street from the woods. Fair doughnut shop and the antique store anyway. Before we went down her boss Came out and Was like hey come in here from and he closed the door to his office. And then she was super nice to me ever since. After that, after that meeting. But me and the other guy was just sitting there. So to be fair, the Co director who wouldn't write me a letter of recommendation for anything past or research assistance said. UM. To help me out with them. The stress of that, so to be fair. The other, the other Co director uh he is still there. Like I said, I don't really want to say names because it's kind of a mixed bag. And they are still technically in the museum connection so. I'm not going to say the names. The guy's head of the history department. He got a little drunk at the graduation party. And and flirted with some of the girls, and it was creepy. But that wasn't the first time. He definitely. I could tell. Had a fetish for a certain body type. Because when I took his class. He was really hard on the 1st paper. And I was like, OK, so let. Me have a meeting with you. And tell me what I did wrong so that I don't get this bad. Of a grade. For the rest of the papers, he actually let me rewrite it for a new grade, but anyway, like so he didn't really want. To meet me. Like you're doing great in the class anyway. Just the wrong paper. I'm like, but I want to know what you're looking for so that I can, you know, write it correctly. And so. So after he sort of told me what he was looking for, which is not very helpful, but I try my best and I I did get a better grade on the second year, but. I got an A on the 2nd paper I got a C on the 4th paper and it wasn't anyway, but I I asked the one girl in the class who had gotten 100%. On the paper. And I looked at her paper, you know? I wanted to read over to because if she got 100% I needed to still understand what. He was looking for. All people was full of errors, grammatically. All the stuff that he says that he is not does not want in a paper was in her paper. And she was one of the girls she flirted with with later on. And she's she's. The one that wrote the exhibit labels. With me, when this we go. To the different body type. From the rest of the classmates. There was things like that I was like, OK, it was a couple people, had tons of errors and slow issues and. But she got 100% and and. Continually did really well in that class and not that she didn't have merit. She was very smart too. She was in this program too. She. She wrote the exhibit labeled with me. In that in a different class and it was great. You know, but. You could definitely tell those favoritism. If if not something. Was there was definitely favoritism? Not that. He acted on any of that stuff because. Because nothing. You know, but there was definitely. There's definitely favoritism and and in the classes and. So that was kind of frustrating, so I couldn't really ask him for a letter of recommendation either, but he was a Co. Director at the. Time and uh ironically, he was at my History Museum boss's memorial mass. I went to. In April. And super super friendly then. But I was like. Uh, why couldn't you be friendly or five years ago when I graduated and I needed letters of recommendation? He was like, are you still working in Alton? No, I'm working in at the National Archives. Not where I want to be working, but. That's not really my year of study. Not there. There was a lot of transition and. So we cannot rule over most of us. In that in that. That group. Those were the negative experiences. Having to. And also you'd be you'd be in a late class that get out at 6:00 PM. And the only thing that'll be open is the sushi fridge or the Pizza Hut. And we kind of wanted to eat dinner before you drove 45 minutes home. I guess you could. Go to a restaurant. But I didn't. Have a job, so I didn't have any money. You know, to go to a restaurant or even a chain. So I'd rather do Pizza Hut over, you know, McDonald's or something and. And not having a theatre program is is a negative experience. But the the gym at also was a pretty new building. And the programs there. Like the Tai chi classes. Those were really great. 03:20:00 Polly

That's great. Thank you for that great answer. I have just a couple more questions. For you, I know I've already taken up a lot of your time, so. 03:21:00 Mariah

That's OK. 03:22:00 Polly

Don't worry. 03:23:00 Mariah

That's why I picked the 5:30 time, so I would be off work. Yeah, yeah. And I have to take the you know, Yeah, more flexible. And I and I telework. I work from home on. Tuesdays and Thursdays, so. And that's going to be the they're cutting it down to one day a week in two. Weeks now, but. I'm like I'm taking advantage of it while I can. 03:24:00 Polly

As you should. I'm just. I'm going to ask you some questions about your values as a person. So what did you learn in college? And I guess this could be SIUE or UMSL. What did you learn in college that changed the way you view the world? 03:25:00 Mariah

Ohh my goodness, that's a deep question. Oh geez. How I view the world? Well, OK, definitely some of those professors I have mentioned definitely changed how I viewed the academic world little bit more negative than it originally was. So my undergraduate was anthropology. Which is the study of people. And that really changes your worldview. Because you. The full tenets of anthropology or archaeology, linguistics, cultural and biological for American. Biological I'm talking like monkeys. OK, fine. Which is not European anthropology. They don't study monkeys under Antarctic anyway, and I did cultural. So in your own cultural, you're reading about every culture in the world. That really. It teaches you to not be ethnocentric, which is. I don't know if you know that, Tom. You do. OK. 03:26:00 Polly

Go ahead and define it for anyone else who might listen. 03:27:00 Mariah

The sense of. Your worldview is the only corect worldview. Ethos, yourself, centric, surrounding yourself. That program really taught me to not be ethnocentric. At UMSL a lot of museum courses. Have a lot to do with. Displacement in communities. Cultural. Cultural displacement. You learn about, you know. The the pseudoscience of of studying race and how they measure people's skull and that says how they are smaller than others. So that that really. I would say that I'm so program definitely opened. Changed my view of of social justice. And how? You don't want history to repeat yourself itself and how the discourse that you need to be. To make a difference and and the constantly changing discourse in. Museums are not the stuffy behind the China cabinet that they will 100 years ago. You have to engage with your community. Multiple communities, multiple types of communities. So. So then you're you're. You're exposed to those. I mean, I grew up in a. Catholic white family. In a smaller city, Alton’s still a city. Of actually, Altonis very, very diverse, but that's it. That's a different thing. Racially very racially diverse, but still have the problems. You know, redlining districts and stuff like that, but. But you're definitely. Exposed to? Very different. Worlds in the museum field. I was exposed to very different worlds, fascinating and and anthtropology at SIUE, and I was exposed to very different viewpoints and. How to go? About because there's a couple of different ways you can go about doing the museum exhibits and and that definitely changed because. I would I. Wanted to go into museum studies, but my viewpoint. Was stodgy behind a glass cabinet, but I really love making cabinet exhibits. And I really love that so. I knew what I was going to, but then to have all these other. OK, so like the very first semester we did, it was a dual conference. Between UMSL it was pretty pretty cool that they did this. Uh, a very. That was a new experience because I didn't want to go to a conference, you know, a academic conference and at SIUE, I went to like auction issues and they had a speaker up on, you know, on but not academic conference. You know, where you were part of it. And and right off the bat, I'm so had a dual conference with. On displacement. And discourse on displacement, and I'm talking all the refugee cultures that have been displaced so. Not the paper that I had to discuss him with him, but another paper. And and of course the teacher. Was the head of the. UMSL side of the conference. But I wrote a paper in that class on. Bosnian identity in in Saint Louis. Because you know that's a massive displaced community that that is here. St. Louis has the largest Bosnian population outside of Bosnia. 03:28:00 Polly

I'm sorry my I don't think my. Fire alarm's. Going off. I don't know if you can hear. Can you hear that? 03:29:00 Mariah

No. 03:30:00 Polly

OK, I made a face because something's beeping. I think it's somebody. I think it's a somebody needs to change their batteries, but everything happens. I'm. Like because I live in an apartment complex, but I'm really sorry I didn't mean. To interrupt you. So go on. 03:31:00 Mariah

That's OK. But yeah, the Bosnian population in Saint Louis is the largest outside of Bosnia. Just like the Polish population of Chicago is the largest Polish group outside of Poland. That's where you get your paczkis and your perogis that delicious food. So yes, so both. Back to like the values more justice, I have a very strong mole code. I've had this my whole life. But to to really. See the Gray areas that are still acceptable. That's eye opening. I'm a hardcore researcher so so it's a little disappointing that. What I saw in academia at UMSL was negative. Because if you're going to research something, you got to research it totally. Every very, very detail oriented. In a sense, I probably am a little too detailed for some of the stuff that they wanted me to do at at UMSL. And it takes. It takes so much more time to be so, so much detail oriented. Is also interesting to see. Like we’re in grad school and. Obviously some of my classmates were not detail oriented. I’m like, but this is a detail oriented field most part. To to. It took a lot to learn how to make succinct labels. That won't, you know, 3 paragraphs. It's like, Oh my gosh, I wanted everyone to know this information too, but that's something that was world view is. No, you really need to learn how to be. Like I said, pros and cons? Umm detail oriented. [?] label writing, then cause you you have all this information and you want people to know. But you also have to understand. Attention spans interests of the general population that would be going through this exhibit. The background education levels you have to take. All that into account. That was. You know some great professors that really both SIUE and I'm sure that. Pulled it down from the high horse of academia umm and it's like, OK, this is for the community. Chill out on, on and and I don't think those values are. Very useful too. 03:32:00 Polly

All right. 03:33:00 Mariah

Did I answer that whole question? Was there three parts to that question? 03:34:00 Polly

You answered the whole question. 03:35:00 Mariah

OK. 03:36:00 Polly

Now I just want to ask if there's anything else that you would like to share with us. 03:37:00 Mariah

I think. That the disability office at UMSL could be better. Including access to a better cafeteria. Because I I have a rare disease, I rare kidney disease. So I am on a low sodium diet most of the time. So when I can only eat Pizza Hut. That's gonna affect my health. And then it's gonna affect my focus and my studies. And UM. They have a very tiny disability office. At UMSL and. At SIUE I all I had a number that. I could call. The chefs at the cafeteria half now, before I wanted a meal and they made me a low sodium meal. 03:38:00 Polly

That's great. 03:39:00 Mariah

Because they had a full kitchen, but the UMSL cafeteria had a soup and a salad bowl. That was made by the kitchen and and otherwise it was all changed. I think. Considering that, ok, they’re celebrating their 60 years. The ADA accommodations came in in 1990. They could improve. Access access for people. Also, I was in a serious car accident in the summer of 2017, so I couldn't drive the entire fall. And there's not much for. In sense of of. Transportation. I had to have my mom drive me to all my classes because that was when I had the class at the SLU class at UMSL and the class at the History Museum and the online class with the. History of Mexico and. My mom, that's what being a contractor. You have a little bit more flexibility, so she drove me to all my classes. Because I was in physical therapy for six months, the entire length of the the semester. So I couldn't drive until January of 2018. Having to use crutches. It's just. Very old, tiny little elevators and some of those buildings. And and broken. The door, the door buttons and. And at SIUE, we had a much bigger disability office. And the food and. Yeah, I mean, I don't know what level of accommodations they had for dormitories, because I didn't. I didn't. Need accommodations in the dormitories but. You know for people who. Uh, you know. Have mobility issues. I don't I don't know, and I don't. I don't know that in terms of I'm so either. I don't have mobility issues, but. That's that's what I wanted to say. UM. Done really good with the conferences and they've done really good with. Still having some top programs, the machine science program is still top. It was just individuals that you know. Messed us up. It's still fantastic program gets you. All in all, the places to study and research and and whatnot and channels. Yeah. So. It it is, it wasn't really. UMSL’s fault, you know, because. Grad school is just really hard. So like I said, I did try the Tai Chi. And that was really nice. And like having classes like that. That was where they need. They did not have Tai Chi classes at SIUE. And I I would have kept going to more Tai Chi classes but they changed the teacher. I didn't like the new teacher. While it lasted. It was really. It was really nice. I also really like. That that UMSL has. The Mercantile library. So that's pretty cool too. And the planetarium. Ohh. Uh. Because you know, obviously every university has a library, but this is also a story. Museum/library. So. But also there's very limited coffee. There was even limited coffee and like bagel options. So too like the food options look extremely limited. So they should. They should work on that. 03:40:00 Polly

Yeah. Thank you so much for sharing and I hope this isn't out of pocket to say, but I feel like everything you shared, it was very brave of you to, to share everything that you shared. 03:41:00 Mariah

Oh, thanks. 03:42:00 Polly

And you really opened up and I really appreciate that because it's made for a fantastic interview. 03:43:00 Mariah

Yeah. 03:44:00 Polly

I think you have a lot of wisdom to impart. So thank you so much. 03:45:00 Mariah

What? Say it again? 03:46:00 Polly

I just said I think you have a lot of wisdom to impart so. 03:47:00 Mariah

Ohh impart. Thanks. 03:48:00 Polly

It's phenomenal. I'm going to send the release form to you. It's basically like there's a section about you and the section about me. I filled out the part About me, you just fill out the part about you. And yeah, do you have any questions for me or anything? 03:49:00 Mariah

No, I mean, what, what is what is the final project? For all these interviews. 03:50:00 Polly

We're going to upload them onto a website. I hope that. I I don't think it really is much more than. Uploading it to. The website, the 60th anniversary thing, it's just been sort of like they've been doing events all year for it. There isn't like one massive event that I know of. I'm graduating this semester. But I. Hope that. 03:51:00 Mariah

You're graduating in December here. Ohh wow. OK. 03:52:00 polly

I I hope that if anything else comes from your interview like after I leave that they're well, they have the they'll have your contact information so they'll be able to contact you if like they decide to feature the interview somewhere or whatever, you know, but. As far as what I know, we're just going to upload the interview and I'm going to create an index and a transcript of it, and we're going to have that accessible to the public on a website. So I think I should be able to send. You the link when it's. 03:53:00 Mariah

OK. 03:54:00 Polly

Information and my professor does too. Anything I can I will send to you, but it. Might be a couple of days. 03:55:00 Mariah

That's fine. That's fine. 03:56:00 Polly

A week. 03:57:00 Mariah

So is this like your exit project? 03:58:00 Polly

It's. Yeah, it's my. It's my final fur. One of my history classes I had. To take like 2. Half undergrad, half graduate level classes. So a lot of the people doing these interviews are graduate students, but it was something I had to do. I guess as a senior it's kind of confusing because it's like I'm not really a senior. I'm like, I mean I am. But like you know, with UMSL, I transferred and I had credits here and there. So but it's it's something that senior history students do. So I'm in an oral history class, that's why. Yeah. Yeah. It's kind of like a final project final paper. 03:59:00 Mariah

Neat, neat. 04:00:00 Polly

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, thank you so much. This was amazing. Yeah, I will be emailing you any information that I can. 04:01:00 Mariah

If you don't have any more questions for me, then I wish you a good night and it was very nice talking to you and very nice. Meeting you. 04:02:00 Mariah

Nice meeting you too. No, I don't think I have anymore questions. 04:03:00 Polly

OK, sounds good.