UMSL @ 60 - Katie Lade

Transcript 00:01:00Katie Lade: Got it.

Sam Humphries: This is Sam Humphries. On December 6th, 2023, conducting an oral history interview with an UMSL alumni about her time here. This is being recorded and she's already signed the release form. Please state your name and spell it out.

Katie: Sure. My name is Katie Lade, spelled K a t i e L a d e.

Sam: Perfect. Where were you born?

Katie: I was born in St. Louis, MO.

Sam: Is that where you grew up at?

Katie: Yeah, so I grew up in Saint Louis. Specifically I grew up in South County. But I grew up going all over the place around Saint Louis, as one does.

Sam: Yeah. Where was your family from?

Katie: Sure, my parents they grew up in Saint Louis too, but my 00:02:00family they have roots in Southern Missouri and Alabama as well. As younger children, I think that they both ended up moving up to Saint Louis. So, it's kind of, a lot of the families been in South County.

Sam: Ok, whereabouts from South Missouri.

Katie: Around Poplar Bluff, Missouri.

Sam: Ok. What is your heritage?

Katie: Like where where's my ancestors from?

Sam: Yeah, yeah.

Katie: Oh my gosh! That's a great question. I feel like my brother, he did one of those DNA ancestry tests and I'm being completely honest it just said, like white, just like British, like Irish.

Sam: Yeah, everything European.

Katie: Yeah, it was like 95% British and like English. My parents, I think my, 00:03:00I can't ever get a great read on it. I don't have any direct, generational or immigrants in my family. Nothing is making sense. It’s late for me. (laughs) My mom’s family, I think they've been here since at least a little before the American Revolution. I think some of her female member family members were in the daughters of the American Revolution. And I don't know much about my dad's family honestly. Kind of those type of whereabouts, they've been here for a while I think just a family of farmers. People going about.

Sam: What were their names?

Katie: Their names?

Sam: Yeah.

Katie: So, for the last names, it's Lade and then also Biggs. I just recently learned that Lade has to do with shipping as an origin. I used to think my last name meant it was a hole in a road, and then at work the other day we were Googling last names. I think that I had some type of 00:04:00shipping relation. Biggs is just essentially a last name for someone who's big and strong. So, I'm just a big burly person.

Sam: Simple. Did you know your grandparents?

Katie: I did, I did! That's how I know some of my, at least my mom’s southern roots because I grew up with my grandpa until he passed when I was about 11. He grew up primarily in Mobile, Alabama and Rome, Georgia. He moved up when he was a bit younger. He had sort of a funny story in that he ran away from home when he was about 16 and hustled people in pool and just made his way up, I suppose. Then married someone from the north, which was my grandma. So I don't think that, I think there were still some tensions there? It's kind of funny you can think about that when it's so, when it's in the 20th century. But my father’s grandparents, 00:05:00they are both from Poplar Bluff, Missouri. It was kind of a similar situation with my parents in that they grew up together.

Sam: What were their names?

Katie: Oh Sure! So, my mom's parents, my grandpa Bobby, and my grandma Hazel. So, Bobby Biggs, it’s kind of a fun name. Then my dad's side, we had Larry Lade. We love alliteration in my family I suppose. And then Kathy Amrine. I'm not sure which one was her official last name; I should know she's nice.

Sam: Do you know what they did for a living?

Katie: Yeah! My grandpa, I think, he this is seeming kind of tricky. I want to say he was in the shoe sales business. I know that's what his father was in as well. My grandma I think that they just kind of worked 00:06:00different manufacturing jobs in Saint Louis. That was I think what originally, my great grandfather, had gone up to Saint Louis for a bit whenever there was the garment industry and a big shoe business in Saint Louis. My grandma on my father's side, she was a pharmacy technician for a bit and she also worked in a factory. And then my grandfather, he was a city of Saint Louis police officer and then eventually became a DEA agent. So, he did that for a bit.

Sam: Do you have any siblings?

Katie: I do! I have an older brother. His name is Alex. He's about four years older than me. For his job, I do not know what he does. He works in finance. Finance is one of those careers where as soon as you say it I feel like it's kind of ‘OK, yeah.’ No one knows, money?

Sam: Something to do with it.

Katie: Yeah. (laughs)

Sam: 00:07:00Did you spend much time with your extended family growing up?

Katie: I spent a bit of time with my father's extended family in Poplar Bluff. We used to go there in the summer sometimes and go camping. We would go along the lake and my grandfather. He owned a bit of land in Popper Bluff, kind of outside the outskirts of the city, so we would go there over the summers. I grew up with, my parents were divorced, so sometimes in the weekends we would just go with my father and go there for a bit. Then come back for the weekdays with my mom. But I would spend time with some of my cousins and whatnot. But as the years have gone by we've kind of drifted apart, so I'm not too familiar with much of my extended family, unfortunately.

Sam: OK. You said you grew up in South County, right?

Katie: I did. I did.

Sam: How did that neighborhood shape your childhood?

Katie: Sure! I, think it kind of opened up my eyes 00:08:00to quite a bit. It was a pretty diverse neighborhood where I grew up in South County. It was kind of on the border of Saint Louis City and Saint Louis County. And like I said, I grew up with my parents divorced, and so I grew up primarily with my mom; my mom, my brother and I. It was a pretty diverse area. Different religions, people from different backgrounds. My neighborhood had a lot of first-generation immigrants and I'm very fortunate in that, I feel like we kind of grew up in a very tight knit community. Where you felt like you had some very strong trusting relationships with people, and you could still joke around and have fun. But, I have I have very pleasant memories of it. It was a good time, you know. I was always going out and riding my bike. I had a trampoline, so I was the cool kid in the neighborhood. Granted and I had a trampoline without the net, 00:09:00so I feel like it was very dangerous, but whatever. (laughs) Everyone was OK.

Sam: Do you have any relationships from that time still?

Katie: That's a great question. I mean now with social media I feel like it's really easy to stay in contact with quite a few people or kind of at least peek into their lives, whatever they want to share with people. But I mean, I have a couple of friends from high school that I still talk to pretty frequently. Those friends are the ones that I'm very close with. We talk most every day, which is nice and kind of grow together. But as I went on to college and Graduate School, I started to meet more people and kind of expand outside of the neighborhood I grew up in. Now I'm in Boston, so I don't unfortunately get to see anyone.

Sam: How did your relationship with your sibling affect your childhood?

Katie: 00:10:00Oh, sure, so my brother is probably my best friend, for better or for worse, like worse he’s still my best friend. He's one of the people that I’m constantly talking to. My mom, my brother and I have a group chat, but it's basically just my diary of me just texting them about what's going on throughout my day with no response. I feel like it's your typical younger sibling, if you have any siblings, it's kind of that way. I grew up with my brother kind of looking out for me and with my mom, trying to kind of help raise me in a way. My brother would always kind of be there to help me with the little things like manners or how do you properly answer the phone. He was kind of doing his older sibling duties, in the sense that, he was kind of helping me to, navigate life as an adolescent. 00:11:00There's always going to be that generational difference between your parents and yourself. I think that my brother was there to kind of help me, navigate what it's like to be an adolescent in the 2000s. Like I had mentioned before, we were four years apart, so we never crossed paths really in school. So it was kind of good, especially because I was a very different student than he was. He was not much of a studious or by the book type of student, whereas I was that nerd who was just always afraid of getting in trouble. So we were very different in school.

Sam: I have an older sister so I can relate.

Katie: Yeah, (laughs).

Sam: Was college something that you thought about during your childhood?

Katie: I did, so I'm a first-generation college student. I kind of grew up with my mom, really encouraging me to go after college and to see that as something achievable. 00:12:00She was trying her best to minimize any barriers I might have. My teachers I had in school, they were also such great resources. They helped me with the application process. I went to school locally, I went to Webster University for undergrad. It was really helpful because I could see different people, study abroad, but I was able to commute. I still lived at home when I was in college. I Feel like my mom was the one who, she didn't necessarily tell me I had to go to college, but she wanted me to be happy, and she knew how much I loved to learn. She had an idea that college would definitely be the route for me to take. It was nice to have someone who was there to encourage me and try their best to help me out in any way that they could.

Sam: Sounds like a good mom.

Katie: Yeah!

Sam: Where did you attend elementary?

Katie: Elementary school, oh. So for kindergarten, I went to Windsor, I'm not sure if you're familiar with the area.

Sam: Yeah, I know where it is.

Katie: Yeah, Imperial. From first grade, I went to Seckman. And then for 2nd grade I went to Trautwein.

Sam: Okay.

Katie: And then 3rd through 5th and went to Bierbaum Elementary in South County.

Sam: Where did you go to high school?

Katie: I went to Mehlville High School. So your typically St. Louis question! Yeah, Mehlville in South County.

Sam: Did your, uh let's say K through 12, experience prepare you for college, do you feel?

Katie: I think, high school definitely did. I think it did in the sense that it helped me academically, but I think it also helped me in regards to emotional intelligence. I feel like I definitely learned how to interact with my peers 00:14:00and also interact with academics. My teachers and the people that I was around my peers, they all helped me navigate different personalities and learn about communication. Learned about trying to talk to people, talk to people that might be very outgoing, might be very reserved. I was always that student who, I had positive reports but it was always a ‘You just talk a little too much.’ It was something where, I wasn't necessarily told not to talk too much, but kind of figure out when and where to do it. I get paid to talk now, so jokes on them.

Sam: You said you attended Webster, right?

Katie: I think yes.

Sam: What was that experience like?

Katie: It was amazing. It really great. 00:15:00I received my bachelor’s in history and political science from Webster in 2019. But, I first started off as a math major, I quickly learned I was not good at math. So I dropped my major and then went to political science. It was a really phenomenal school to, become close to your professors and build those relationships so that they were always looking out for you. That's something that I was looking for. I kind of knew, even from a younger age, say like 15, 16 that I didn't want to go to a university that had a huge lecture hall. I didn't want to just be, I sound like I'm an ad for college, but I didn't want to be just like a random face in the lecture hall that they never knew, the professors. I also wanted to study abroad, so I went to Webster 00:16:00so that I could have those close connections to the professors while also getting the opportunity to study abroad. It was such a tight knit community, there were so many clubs. I feel like I was just constantly walking around, waving at people. If you've seen the Barbie movie, it felt like that where it's just like ‘Hi Barbie!’ You kind of couldn't go anywhere without seeing someone you knew, which was really nice. And it was nice to have an academically challenging, academically rigorous program and have professors that were willing to connect you with people or try to help you out in internship. Trying to really connect with you and care about you and your well-being.

Sam: Sounds like they were there for you no matter what, sounds nice.

Katie: Yeah, for sure. We're still in contact today which is really nice.

Sam: It sounds great. How involved were you at Webster 00:17:00in like clubs or other activities outside of courses?

Katie: Yeah, I would say I was pretty involved. I commuted, but I was still just on campus constantly. One reason being that you can't really drive home in time to do anything and then get back to class on time. I was active, I helped to kind of rebuild the College Democrats at Webster and I did that with a close friend. I was a student ambassador for the President's office. I was part of the International Relations Honor Society. I Feel like I'm missing something, but it's fine. I was trying to do my best to get to know people outside of just the history department and I think I succeeded. I still have some very close friends from college, and we all talk almost every day, and even if it's just like, you know, just a little message, a little photo. It's really nice to still have that community 00:18:00and still be kind of looking out for each other and feeling like their achievements are your wins too. It was really awesome.

Sam: When did you graduate for your bachelors?

Katie: Yeah, I graduated in May of 2019.

Sam: Okay, what led you to choose UMSL for your postgrad?

Katie: Yeah, so I was, struggling very much so I went straight from undergrad to grad school. I didn't know exactly where I wanted to go. I also considered two other grad programs in Virginia. I Just couldn't decide which program was the best for me. I had initially thought that I wanted to get my PhD so that I could study the history of disability. So, the other two programs of Virginia were Academically minded and, not that UMSL isn’t, but in the sense that 00:19:00it was more like a PhD track. Then there was UMSL, which was more public, history minded. I was trying to think about it and I thought about what would be best for me long term. I didn't think of really in the headspace to try and do something like pursue a PhD at the time. You know I was like 22 and I also, at least at the moment, I didn't see myself studying the history of disability long term. It was really challenging. It was a really tough subject to read about and study for so long. I didn't know if I could dedicate my life to that because I was looking into the eugenics era in America and it's tough. UMSL had, like I had mentioned, the public history focus and I thought that was a good combination of academia with history. 00:20:00Then also public history, so I could learn a bit more about how museums operate. So eventually I decided I was going to choose UMSL. I think that's their slogan, isn't it? Like ‘I chose UMSL!’ (laughs) I think that that is what really encouraged me to go there because I was trying to get into contact with professors. You know, like Doctor Andrew Hurley, he was so communicative. I started the first year that Lara had started and so I was her first cohort with grad school and the grad program. Yeah, it just seemed like the right fit for me.

Sam: What perception of UMSL did you have before attending it?

Katie: Sure, so really something big that I considered often with colleges was the financial implication. 00:21:00I always saw UMSL as an affordable institution and something that was there that had a lot of different programs. So, if you weren't sure what you wanted to do, it was the smarter choice financially. Which, hindsight maybe I should have done that instead of going to Webster for undergrad. I often saw UMSL as a commuter school. I saw it as a school where a lot of people from Saint Louis went or surrounding around Saint Louis. That was, kind of growing up, that was my perception of the school.

Sam: Okay, so you chose it because of the public history aspect and the financial aspect?

Katie: Yes, those were the two main factors, especially for grad school. Some might say getting your graduate degree in the humanities isn't the best choice. And I say don't listen to them.

Sam: Exactly.

Katie: It was kind of a good combination of theory and practice for me. Learning those different theories, learning and reading about historical works and then implementing that into the museum field. That was what really excited me, and it was great to be able to see that in a program.

Sam: Okay, when did you, your first year was at 2020, right for UMSL?

Katie: 2019 to 2020.

Sam: How was that experience like?

Katie: Yeah, so I was very fortunate in that I had a full semester face to face before the pandemic started. I was so fortunate. I was able to meet professors, was able to go to class with my cohort so we could all 00:23:00kind of get to know each other pretty quickly. It was a small cohort and immediately it was just ‘do you all want to hang out?’, ‘do you all want to do this?’, ‘let's all study together,’ ‘we're all in pain together’, ‘let’s do it together.’ (laughs) I really, Side note, I feel like I'm just saying the worst things for this. I'm so sorry!

Sam: It’s an honest experience.

Katie: Grad school's great! I was able to interact with my graduate assistantship face to face. I had a graduate assistantship at the Saint Louis Mercantile, and it's also on campus, but I was able to get to know those people. It's so hard to get to know someone over Zoom, so it was great to be able to read their body language, see how they interact in person, just see how they are. Also, their heights. You never get to know that on Zoom. 00:24:00Yeah, I was fortunate that we had at least one semester. I still remember the day that everything kind of shut down. I was at my assistantship, and I think this was right before spring break started and we started getting notifications that people were shutting down for us this semester. That flights were being canceled, this was happening, that was happening. My supervisor, she came out and she goes ‘I just think you need to go home, and we'll revisit this in two weeks, and we'll see what happens’. And we all know what happens. It was much easier though, to have organic conversation over Zoom, since we all knew each other. We were able to kind of read each other's faces, felt comfortable to have those conversations. I noticed my second year there was a bit of a difference with the first cohort, no excuse me, 00:25:00the following cohort after us who started completely online. It didn't seem like they, at least from the start, had been as tight knit as we were. I think they did eventually get to that point, started to be in person. It's challenging to try and build that relationship with someone if it's over Zoom. It had its ups and downs for sure, but I'm really glad that we got to have a few months without the pandemic happening.

Sam: What were some of your memories, before the pandemic, of UMSL on campus?

Katie: Yeah, I remember reading a lot. I remember, I would start to kind of, I was kind of starting to find my place 00:26:00at UMSL. I know it's a lot of commuters just like myself and I know so many students who are just constantly doing homework on campus. Which I suppose is normal, but also in the sense that you could tell they didn't have dorms to go back to, so people camping out. I unfortunately, since I was in grad school, I feel like there's a separation with grad students compared to undergrad, or like an undergrad. I was just talking to everyone, it felt like I knew everyone in the student population. Then grad school, you're just kind of the outliers coming in and out for like 5:30 classes and then leaving.

Sam: Yeah.

Katie: I started to also basically camp out. I would go to Lucas Hall and kind of have my little table. I remember Dr. Hurley coming in, he's like ‘oh, you're here!’ 00:27:00I would just be there reading, doing my work, preparing for the week's classes. I would have a lot of familiar faces who are coming in and out of Lucas though.

Sam: Good old Dr. Hurley. How involved were you on UMSL campus?

Katie: I wasn't too involved, unfortunately. I didn't go. I think there's like that one dining hall. It's a really big like two decker space like a Community Center or something. But I Feel like my. Excuse me, if you can hear my cat meowing's, he at the door now.

Sam: It’s fine.

Katie: Put that In the transcript.

Sam: I will!

Katie: I did become pretty involved with my cohort though. We would all try to schedule times for us to go outside of class and even just have bachelor nights. 00:28:00So like watch The Bachelor, Bachelorette and it was a good way to bond and talk about the class work.

Sam: Ok, you kind of hinted at it, but how did UMSL shape your identity, or sense of self?

Katie: Sure, UMSL definitely made me more confident as a museum professional. They, especially Dr. Hurley, he challenged me. All the other professors too, they challenged me quite a bit academically and really helped me to consider how are the words that I'm saying going to be used, or actions used in the field. How am I going to read this book or read this theory and put it to practice? How am I going to present a program, develop an exhibit? What am I going to do to make myself more appealing to an employer? 00:29:00How am I going to prepare as a professional to hopefully get a job one day. It was really great to see myself build that confidence over two years. To also know that there was a strong group of people who are rooting for me and rooting for the rest of my cohort too. I feel like I became more willing to reach out for help as well. Because when you're in the middle of a pandemic, sometimes things get a little tough. Then you start to become a bit more vulnerable and a bit more honest with how everything's going, how life is stuck in your apartment, stuck in your house. It felt very humanizing.

Sam: Are there things you wish you could have done at UMSL that were unable to? I know COVID affected that a lot.

Katie: I think just being in person, was great. I don't really feel like my grad school experience was unfulfilled though. I feel like I met some really great people. I had some great relationships with professors. They, were amazing mentors, amazing friends. Like I had mentioned earlier, with the power of social media, I feel like we're all so connected still. I don't know if there's necessarily anything I wish had been different. Yeah, I think it's just. Maybe it's because I don't know what I was missing, that I don't wish anything was different. I feel very fulfilled and I feel like it was a great experience for those two years and. Yeah, I think that, 00:31:00no regrets, no.

Sam: Yeah, that’s fine. You talked Dr. Hurley early a lot, but is there anyone else, any other individuals who impacted you an important way?

Katie: I would say two people come to mind. Specifically, Dr. Minsoo Kang and also Dr. Jeanne Zarucchi. Uh, Im not sure if you're familiar with either.

Sam: I know the first one.

Katie: Doctor Kang, Yeah! So you know that he assigns a lot of reading.

Sam: Yeah, he does.

Katie: So that's where the pain comes in with school. No, for him, he was very, we all know how passionate he is about history, and he's so intelligent. It was just so amazing to see someone just light up 00:32:00when they're talking about history. In so many topics in history! I'm lucky if I can remember one thing. So seeing this man describe the entire history of Europe in 2 minutes, I could never do that. (laughs) It was nice because I feel like he really noticed me and he really saw me. He would notice where, what areas in class I would seem like I'm really excelling in or what topics I seem like I really connected with. Then he would be able to recommend five different books to go with that topic. I never regretted reading them, but it was nice to have someone so passionate about history. Then Dr. Zarucchi, she has my heart. She's just so amazing! She was one of the last professors I had before we went completely virtual. She is just so knowledgeable in her field. 00:33:00I think, I'm not sure if her PhD in art history you can fact check me. [Transcriber note, her PhD is in Romance Languages and Literatures] You can change that if you want to but (laughs), her knowledge of material culture and the history museums. The nuances attached to museums, and how museums used to be or historically perceived. How that perception has changed over time just, blew my mind. In the way that she would describe that. She was open to all of us and our different ideas and encouraged conversation and dialogue within the students. It was just, it was amazing to see that. It showed me the type of facilitator I'd like to be as I grew into my career. I feel like I could still reach out to both of those individuals with any question I have. They’d be open to answering opening to, helping me out, recommending a book.

Sam: Were there 00:34:00any particularly unpleasant or challenging experiences at UMSL? Besides COVID I guess.

Katie: Yeah, I wouldn’t say anything particularly unpleasant. You know, your typical grad school woes and challenges. Feels like there's never enough time in the day. But, no, I mean sometimes the printers in the library didn't work that was really something. Honestly, I feel like I received the education I was looking for, and even with the little, that little bump with the pandemic. Everyone was really quick to act on their feet and be flexible, be forgiving. Which, at the end of the day is all that we really need.

Sam: I know you said you attended UMSL 00:35:00because you're interested in public history. Could you talk a bit more about how your time at UMSL influenced, how your career turned out so far?

Katie: Sure, so I work for the National Park Service. I started the National Park Service my second year at UMSL, so I thought that I wanted to. Let me backtrack a little bit, so I was in graduate assistantship first year working in collections which was amazing. But I knew that I wanted to do something a bit more public facing because working collections can be kind of lonely. I can only talk to the objects for so long and then I need to talk to someone else. I started looking into internships and I knew I wanted to go into interpretation. Then cut to the summer 2020, I was in the UMSL Graduate School 00:36:00Facebook group and someone posted an internship at the Gateway Arch. I saw it and I saw it with National Park Service and I'm like, ‘Oh, that's looks neat! I guess I can Google how to write a federal resume.’ All in all, it would be good experience like get an interview if I'm fortunate enough to land that. So I remember I was just furiously emailing Dr. Kelland, like ‘Do you know anything about this? Can you help me out?’ So she was a great person to reach out to. She connected me with a different park Ranger who he and I are friends now. I did get that interview and I ended up getting the job! So I would say that UMSL was there for me each step of the way. I was there for about 3 years until I moved here to Boston for a promotion. I think the courses and, there's still all that practice, 00:37:00that is what helped me to get the position. That's what's helped me to get to the point in my career that I am in today.

Sam: When did you graduate, at UMSL?

Katie: That's a fantastic question, let me do some math. 2021. Two years. Yeah, 2019 plus two is 2021.

Sam: Were you still working at the Arch at that point?

Katie: I was, I was! I started September 2020 and I was at the Arch until this August. Then I left for promotion. I'm the lead park Ranger at Frederick Law Olmsted National Historic Site right side of Brookline. It is a mouthful to say.

Sam: Was going to Boston Frederick Law Olmsted National Historic Site, was that where you imagined yourself after UMSL?

Katie: I didn't think know it was a thing! I feel like at that point when I was graduating, I was just fortunate enough to have a job. I was still at the point where I wasn't sure if I was going to be converted into a permanent employee with the Federal Government. I graduated UMSL and I went to an internship at Colonial Williamsburg. I was there for a few months and was very lucky. I ended up coming back to Saint Louis as a permanent Park Ranger. After that, I was just along for the ride. So I'm going to see where life takes me.

Sam: That’s a good outlook.

Katie: Yeah, I mean anything that has a bit of history in it, I'm going to enjoy. There's going to be great people anywhere I go. I don't think I would see myself going out West to an area where there aren’t a lot of people. I am not the Park Ranger 00:39:00who you will want to take you want to hike, or to take you to see like a bear. But, if you want to go to a historic house, I got you.

Sam: You took the, what is,it the MPH? I forget what it's called exactly. The MHPH program at UMSL, I don't remember what it's called. But, how did that prepare you for where you are now? Like your graduate work at UMSL.

Katie: Oh my graduate work, yeah. So, I still have a lot of my books from class. I think they are on my bookcase here now actually. At my cubicle at the Arch, I had a lot of it, like writing for museums, interpretation, all these different books and whatnot. 00:40:00It was a fantastic mix of a lot of different areas, I suppose, of museums. All the graduate work it helped me with research, help me with writing grants, collections interpretation. Which at the end of the day made me a more well-rounded person. I feel like today, I'll just remember a book or an author like, ‘Ah, let me go read that! That'll help you with this issue I'm having!’ I'm not sure if you've read the Anarchist's Guide to Historic House Museums, I can't remember the full title. You read that and I think Dr. Hurley's class and now I'm working at a house museum. Granted, it's very large, so it's not your typical one, but I think about that book a lot. 00:41:00Full circle.

Sam: I'll add it to my reading list in preparation. Moving on from UMSL, are you partnered or married at this time?

Katie: I have a partner, yes. I met him at my first semester Graduate School in Dr. Hurley's, not in Dr. Hurley's class. I don't know if you want all the details, but we met on a dating app as the kids do. He had asked me out, when I was in class, I had took my phone out during the break. I remember looking around the class and I went ‘Does anyone have a first date spot? Also, can someone text me later to make sure I'm OK, because I am going to meet this man.’ Four years later, we're in Boston together, now. He's not in the museum field, he's in the cheese field. 00:42:00Cheese monger. Yeah, I feel like, UMSL has something to say about that. A little connection to there.

Sam: It played a role. Not really at UMSL, but at Webster, did you experience any changes in your sexual orientation or identity at Webster?

Katie: I didn't, personally. No, honestly, I wasn't, I don't know. I don't know how to, I'm not trying to say that I am asexual or anything, but I just wasn't romantically focused on anything at the time. I was more like ‘I'm going to hit the books and not look back!’ No, personally I didn't experience any changes or anything eye opening. 00:43:00I did grow up in a very progressive family too, where if I were to experience anything that was just outside of me originally thinking I was a straight cisgendered woman, that I would be welcomed. My brother is gay, and he came out when he was, I think in middle school, he was like 13. So, I grew up in a family where it was OK.

Sam: Did any of your other family go to UMSL?

Katie: No, I am the first person in my family to go to college. My brother also did not go to college. He's just managed, he's very charismatic. He worked his way up and finance doing whatever he does.

Sam: Whatever one does there.

Katie: Yeah. (laughs)

Sam: Have you influenced anyone to attend UMSL?

Katie: Did I influence anyone to go? I think I did, 00:44:00I don't know if I did firsthand. I don't think that I had told anyone specifically to go, but I know I had a few undergraduate professors who asked me to talk to some students for the Graduate School program. At least one did end up going. Then it's kind of funny, my friend from high school, her little brother, he's like three years younger than me. I remember telling him ‘Oh, I'm going to go to Webster. You're going to go with me?’ He's like, ‘no, no, no. I'm not going to go to Webster University.’ Then he went to Webster. Then he's like, ‘no, no, no. I'm not going to study history.’ Then he studied history. Then after I graduate at UMSL, I'm like, ‘you're going to go to UMSL in some sense.’ He's like ‘No, no. No.’ Now he works in student involvement at UMSL. I think he began his master’s there, but I don't think that's me. I think that's just 00:45:00the universe doing something weird. Not me, necessarily having an influence.

Sam: Are there people at home that you needed to care for while attending UMSL?

Katie: I did not have to personally care for anyone. I had my dog. She was a lot of work. No, I just had a roommate and so shared some rent. I had moved out by the time I started UMSL. I was living on my own with my dog, and a roommate.

Sam: Do you still have that dog?

Katie: I don't, I unfortunately, have to put her down back in May.

Sam: Oh no.

Katie: So I have the cat. Got a little garbanzo bean outside.

Sam: Do you identify with any religion?

Katie: I do not, no. I didn't grow up in a very religious family. 00:46:00Saint Louis is very Catholic, so there was a Catholic Church across the street. My brother converted and he was about 13 or 14. I think, that's just because he was very drawn to the music as opposed to the religion. That was a fun activity for him. No, I didn't really grow up with any religion. My partner is Jewish, so we typically follow his Jewish holidays and so I am learning more and more about Judaism. Personally, I've never been baptized, I haven't really grown up in a church or synagogue or a place of worship.

Sam: Were you, interacting with the Jewish religion at UMSL? Or is that just as you got closer with your partner?

Katie: As I got closer.

Sam: Yeah, okay.

Katie: So that's where, I started to learn more and more about different holidays, different meetings. His family was very open to kind of showing me the ropes and whatnot. I think like a year or so into dating is when I went over to his families for Passover. They did a Passover light and kind of gave me a little breakdown of what everything symbolized. Feeling just bit by bit with each year I am learning a bit more.

Sam: How has, what has been considered heathy, changed since your time in college?

Katie: Could you repeat that?

Sam: How has, what can be considered healthy changed since your time in college?

Katie: In what way? Can you give me an example?

Sam: I gues, like your weight, how much you exercise, stuff like that.

Katie: In undergrad at least, I constantly had a cup of coffee in my hands. Then I wouldn’t eat all day and then I would stress eat at midnight. So that was not, some would say, I don't know I'm not a doctor, some would say it's not the healthiest thing to do. Then at grad school, I will say my first semester I was just trying to make ends meet, so I wasn't really eating a ton. It would be like, eggs. I feel like I saw from my stress and from my lack of eating some weight loss within the first few months. Then the pandemic happens, so I was at home. 00:49:00I decided to take up running because I had some very strong anxiety. I thought that exercising would help to kind of balance out things. Started running, and then within the last year or so, I've kind of transitioned from running and heavy cardio to weightlifting. There's more of a focus ever since grad school started moving my body. I wake up early, I wake up like 4:30 in the morning and I go and lift weights. I feel like a real lunk, like a real meat head. Saying like, trying to figure out the best protein powder. I really do feel better lifting heavy things. I always make sure to try my best to get 7 to 8 hours of sleep, maybe more if I'm lucky. I also try to stop my caffeine intake after about 12 maybe 1:00 PM depending on the day. 00:50:00Dentally that, but for mental health, I try my best to read books for fun, take care of myself, take medicines I need to take. Yeah, I feel like I am stronger in body and mind.

Sam: Did the weightlifting help more with your anxiety, or was it running?

Katie: I would say weightlifting. Not a great runner, honestly, I’ve just never been built to do it. Weightlifting, that helps me, but I did start taking SSRI's as well. Started that, I think, a few months after I finished grad school. You know what, I would have been unstoppable if I started them in grad school. I'd be president of The United States right now. Doing that and then also lifting weights kind of gives me that motivation 00:51:00and confidence. I feel, 30 times healthier between both of those.

Sam: Do you think UMSL helped at all with helping out your health and wellness?

Katie: I would say definitely mental health. Because I had mentioned that, especially with the pandemic, there was that emphasis on taking care of yourself. Reaching out if you need to, If you need that extra break, if you need some time. I think seeing that type of, I don't know what the right word is. The type of, I'll just say understanding.

Sam: Availability?

Katie: What did you say? I'm sorry.

Sam: Availability?

Katie: Yeah, like the availability that definitely helped my mental health. 00:52:00I feel like everyone was often checking in on each other. We all knew that we were all struggling in a certain way. Just being able to empathize with one another, especially because we're at home, and can't leave. It did help, it helped to know there was a community.

Sam: What would your favorite cultural forms be? so like music, literature or art? What do you like?

Katie: Sure, I would say, music and well, there are a few. I suppose I like to read a lot. I got a Kindle last year for Christmas so I'm an e-reader now. I like to read, I love to listen to music, and I like to paint. So I love art and I love to look at art, but more in the sense that I like to see the brush strokes and the work 00:53:00that they're doing as opposed to looking at it as a larger picture. I'm that person who gets a little too close and then maybe some alarm will go off because I'm looking at the painting.

Sam: You appreciate the finer details.

Katie: Yeah! (laughs)

Sam: Could you expand on your hobbies and passions a bit more? So, like what did you gain at UMSL? You said you started working out, or running.

Katie: Yeah, so while I was at UMSL I started trying to do a few things because I started thinking maybe it's time that I'm like that person who has hobbies. Never really been a hobbyist, I suppose. I started trying to read for fun, 00:54:00started trying to exercise again outside of your traditional team sports. I also started cooking and I love to cook! Being at home and just being on Zoom class, I'd be at Zoom and then I'd be over the stove like trying to make something or trying to make cinnamon rolls for the first time. I definitely tried to start to expand on those different things. I feel like those activities are something that carried over after graduate school. I'm constantly on the New York Times cooking app just trying to find a new recipe to make and renting another book from the library.

Sam: You said you felt like a sense of community at UMSL because you got to do that in person then COVID happened. 00:55:00You still felt that bond through online courses. Have you maintained any friendships for UMSL Past graduation.

Katie: Yeah, so still in contact with a few professors. For my cohort, we still have a group chat on Facebook. We're all in different parts of the country now, but a few of them are still in Saint Louis. We don't talk almost every day, but it's kind of nice because you have kind of your own, solid group of people rooting for you. So if we have a career update, it goes into the group chat. You're telling each other that we're doing this, or we're struggling with this in the workplace, how would you handle this. It's nice that it's a constant room or constant space for empowerment. It's a safe space for communication too. 00:56:00It's nice knowing that we still have people we can go back to.

Sam: Sounds nice. Were there any cultural heritage events that you attended at UMSL?

Katie: I attended at UMSL, trying to think. I want to say I went to an art show. I told you I had a terrible memory and I feel I just have a big idea of eating snacks on the small plate. It was at an art show. I was also a research assistant for Dr. Hurley, so I was helping him with a public history project for Great River Greenways. In Hodiamont square or the Hodiamont Tracks. 00:57:00I did attend kind of a meeting with people to talk and share their experiences in the neighborhood. I was in the back transcribing everything they said, so I suppose that could be considered one too.

Sam: I think it counts.

Katie: Yeah.

Sam: What has your relationship with nutrition and food been like? I know you said it varied in college.

Katie: Yeah, I think it's getting better, I think. I grew up with your typical ideas of what wellness should look like. The idea of a woman, she shouldn't eat more than 1200 calories in a day. She should be like a size four or something. I think that I'm starting to become kind of more in tune with my body and 00:58:00the foods that I should be taking in. The vitamins I should be eating or consuming. Not necessarily eating too much though, just eating things that make me feel good and also taste good. So, helps with being able to cook. I think that that's also why I enjoy cooking so much, too, is trying to figure out what I can make that is healthy, but also is going to be delicious. Can you hear him?

Sam: Just barely, it's fine. I'll add them to the transcript. Were there any restaurants around UMSL that you would eat at?

Katie: Not really. I would kind of just like go to my assistantship, go to the Mercantile, go to class and then leave, unfortunately. I didn't look too far, 00:59:00I lived in the Loop. I would usually just go back to the Loop so that I could eat, or go back home. But yeah, I actually don't think that I ate at any restaurants around when I was there.

Sam: Transitioning to politics, before UMSL how involved were you in politics or political activity?

Katie: Yeah, I would say it was decently active. One of my degrees is in political science and so I was heavily involved with the presidential election in 2016. I had mentioned in the beginning that I dropped my math major so that I could take a class in the Obama administration taught by a former governor.

Sam: Oh wow.

Katie: I remember, going up to him first day class. I said ‘I’d like to go to the Iowa Caucuses with you.’ So he connected me with some people. 01:00:00The rest is history, really. I worked on some campaigns. I worked on local, state, and eventually presidential campaign. Yeah, I was pretty active to the point that I kind of burned out on it though. I was just kind of like a go, go, go person, wasn't great at setting boundaries. I was just constantly consuming information. It was necessary and I'm very privileged that I could say it was tiring. I’m very privileged in the sense, that I can just try to take a second to myself. Yeah, I would say I was pretty active. I would attend demonstrations. I would try to help work with nonprofits for economic justice. Yeah, I was busy.

Sam: Were you involved in politics at Webster?

Katie: Yeah, so I was vice president of the College Democrats at Webster. I was involved with that. When I interned for Jobs With Justice, an economic justice nonprofit, I had them come to campus. I had, not sure if you're from the area, if you remember Jason Kander-

Sam: Oh yeah.

Katie: -he came, spoke on campus. I was trying to, I was that person, who always had like a clipboard with petitions to sign.

Sam: I signed a few of them.

Katie: What did you say?

Sam: I said I signed a few of those petitions, so your work wasn’t unnoticed.

Katie: Thank you. Yeah, I was always the person doing that. Trying to get people registered to vote, 01:02:00trying to get certain legislation passed.

Sam: Were you involved in political activities on UMSL?

Katie: Not really, unfortunately. I mentioned that I kind of burnt out a bit.

Sam: Yeah.

Katie: By the time I was at UMSL, I knew that I personally was going to follow politics and I was going to vote. Try to put what little money I make in history where my mouth is. (laughs) I was trying to do that, but I knew that I no longer wanted to be actively participating in the political process any longer. That I was going more the history route.

Sam: Did your personal views change over the course of college?

Katie: I feel like they just became more left. I started pretty much 01:03:00as like a Democrat when I was in college. I just kept going.

Sam: How did the culture at UMSL compare with your personal, political views?

Katie: I think that UMSL was a bit more moderate. I would say from what I had seen, it was a bit more of a mix. Webster was kind of that, little island where kind of everyone's pretty liberal, pretty left-leaning, even professors. Then when I got to UMSL, it was more of a combination and it wasn't necessarily guaranteed that you're going to be talking to someone who might not necessarily vote in the same way as you. Which, isn't something I'm saying that is necessarily good or bad. Yeah, I would say that it was, just more of a mix.

Sam: What did you learn in college that changed the way you viewed the world?

Katie: Yeah, I would say, I just kept opening my eyes to more and more. Started to kind of understand why the neighborhoods I grew up in appear the way they do. We all have hopefully heard about, the Delmar Divide, but learning a bit more into the history of that. History of racism and economic insecurity and why certain streets appear the way they do. Why certain politicians are in different neighborhoods. Then just internationally as well, like meeting students from around the world. Reading books written by certain authors, reading different perspectives. Hearing from professors who have those perspectives. Really opened my eyes and made me want to start to do my own research 01:05:00and learn more about it.

Sam: All those books from Dr. Kang.

Katie: Oh my God. All those books. Did you read That Noble Dream?

Sam: Not yet.

Katie: (gags) Some of those books were amazing, That Noble Dream, so tough to read. I said I never want to see this book again. I mean, I have it here in my apartment, but I never want to see it again. Then I went to Frederick Law Olmsted, and they had a copy! Why is this book here?

Sam: You said you became more left, but were there any fundamental beliefs that got changed during college?

Katie: I don't think any fundamental beliefs. I think, for one, a lot of my beliefs just became a bit more like amplified. Because I grew up with a single mom and I grew up in 01:06:00Saint Louis divided, but I grew up in Saint Louis. Which, depending on where you are, can be pretty left-leaning. I would say, I feel like college just kind of gave me the reasoning or the arguments behind why I'm feeling the way I'm feeling. Why I feel like I should have reproductive rights, or someone else should have this healthcare, or someone else should have this and that. I feel like university just helped me to justify or back up what I'm feeling and gave me kind of that framework for understanding why.

Sam: Do you feel that college helped you justify because of your major, or was that just because you went to college?

Katie: It was a mix, 01:07:00I think. If I studied business, maybe my answers would be a little different. But studying history and political science, it was very focused on all of that. I think that that is a big reason, but also just going to college. Being in the space where you can discuss your ideas in class. That's the point of it, is to just continue to discuss those abstract thoughts and consider well, ‘this author meant this’ or ‘this author meant that.’ Hearing the different perspectives and meeting those different people that also helped me out quite a bit. But at the same time, I think the majors were a big part of it.

Sam: What habits did you pick up during college that have stuck around?

Katie: OK. I will say 01:08:00because, like I said, I was always just drinking coffee. So I've tried to undo a lot of habits. Getting a solid certain number of hours of sleep and whatnot. I, for better or for worse, I have this habit of like saying ‘hi!’ to everyone I meet and maybe people in Boston are not that happy about it. It helps me on my profession. Being in this profession, I talk to the public whenever we're open for the season. One of my jobs, or one of my goals, is to make people feel comfortable and feel like they can learn in a safe space that it's inclusive and open to different ideas, different people, different characteristics. That is something that I learned throughout college. Which just, you know, replaying that Barbie scene just saying hi to everyone, kind of seeing what will stick, 01:09:00what friend can I make that day. That's something that I still, actively try to follow throughout life and as I get older. Because I feel a lot of people tend to become a bit more reserved once they leave college. A bit more reserved about the people around them. People can be really wonderful, so it's kind of up to us to figure that out and to meet new beautiful people.

Sam: Do you feel like you were challenged throughout college at all?

Katie: Do I feel like I was challenged at all?

Sam: Your values, your beliefs. Like what you believe in.

Katie: Not really, I feel like it was more so a question of to what extent am I believing something. 01:10:00Not necessarily trying to completely overturn a value or a belief I had, but to what degree am I going to believe in something. Am I going to be kind of like all in? Am I going to believe something but with disclaimers. So I think that I was kind of questioning myself. I would say, shoot, I feel like I'm trying to say something like-

Sam: The thought process behind your beliefs?

Katie: Just trying to understand or question. I don't know.

Sam: It’s fine. I'll change the transcript.

Katie: Say something, make it sound like I said something profound.

Sam: 01:11:00Well, we're wrapping up. So anything that you felt was not covered about your time as a student at either Webster or UMSL that you want to talk about now?

Katie: I don't think so, I mean we dived back even to my ancestors. We covered quite a bit. Yeah, I mean I've already said before, but it was a great experience, for better or for worse. I was very fortunate to have the struggles that come with student life. A lot of people don't get to have that kind of experience, even if they want it for different reasons. So, I do recognize and acknowledge that I'm someone who is very fortunate to get to go to undergrad and then Graduate School. I met some really wonderful people and I try to emulate those great people and those great professors and students that I had met in my career and outside of it as well. 01:12:00I Just try to bring a little bit of joy and a little bit of history to everyone each day.

Sam: Great thing to do. Is there anything that should be known for future students at UMSL that you want to tell them?

Katie: Just get to know your student, your fellow classmates. Get to know your professors. Open up a bit and if you're really interested in interning somewhere or working on some projects, let them know because they can't read your minds. Those friendships and connections you make with people will follow you for the rest of your life. It's really great to have a strong network of people rooting for you at all times.

Sam: Solid advice, well, thank you for your time. Thank you for your interview. 01:13:00You were great.

Katie: Thank you so much. You were great as well. It was great to relive my different ideas. I know I rambled quite a bit, so I apologize that you have to go through this transcript now.