Artemis Williams by Jenna Danmore

Transcript-- Artemis Williams

Narrator: Artemis Williams Interviewer: Jenna Damore Interview Date: May 4, 2022 Location (s): St. Louis, MO and San Antonio, TX via Zoom Length: 01:39:59

JD: Okay. Did you get the notification? Okay, good. Okay, so my name is Jenna Damore. Today is May 4th, 2022. The purpose of this interview is to understand a little bit more about Artemis Williams and would you mind stating and spelling your name for me.

AW: My name is Artermis Williams, A-R-T-E-M-I-S Artemis W-I-L-L-I-A-M-S Williams

JD: All right, and I do want to remind you that you are being recorded and I will have you sign a release form at the end of this interview.

AW: That sounds great.

JD: Alright, so are there any preferred pronouns that you would like me to use during this interview?

AW: I go by she/they pronouns.

JD: Alright and how do you identify yourself in terms of sexuality and gender?

AW: I am a non-binary pansexual

JD: Okay So, this is a bit more of a broad opening reflection here but um, how do you think that things have changed for LGBTQ people over the course of your life?

AW: That's a good question. Okay, uh even when I was younger, like uh, like elementary school age, I feel like being gay was still extremely taboo. Um, in, in the small ways of, um, I remember using. I remember my peers using certain, words, words as slurs, um, using the word gay in a negative connotation, um, and making jokes at the expense of LGBT people. Um and I feel like, as I have grown 00:02:00up, um, that has become less okay. Um, and less accepted by more people. I think that really started when I was about in high school. I started high school in 2012 and I'd say in 2013/2014 I started like hearing more about like the LGBT community. Um and people becoming less accepting of negative things related to the LGBT community. So for that I feel very lucky, because if times were right now, what they were when I was in elementary school, my life would be terrible. [laughs] and it's already hard enough.

JD: Uhuhm, so why do you think that this change happened then?

AW: I think a big uh part of it is social media. People are able to uh, discuss 00:03:00and communicate with each other, their thoughts and opinions about things and -in-in an easier way. Before we had the Internet um there were only so many ways you could get information out there, and it was not as accessible to the large majority of people, but with social media, a lot more people are able to get access to this information and they're becoming more educated about it.

JD: Um so how has your sexuality and gender impacted your life you think?

AW; I feel like my sexuality and my gender are a very, like, interpersonal um relationship with myself. Uhm , I do not, I have the privilege, where I can be in public, and no one really knows anything, about who I am or how I identify. 00:04:00That's a privilege that I have and I am um quite um reserved about who I am, not for reasons of being embarrassed or guilty. I'm just a naturally reserved person about my personal life. So, everything that has to do with my sexuality and my gender is like a personal, um feelings, like issues, if there are ever issues. It does not affect my outside life as much as it does a lot of other people.

JD: Okay, yeah um what, what have been some key turning points in your life then or moments when your life has changed.

AW: Well I remember growing up um, I would go on long car rides with my 00:05:00grandmother, and she is the woman who raised me. I would go on long car rides with her on the weekends, and sometimes she would just look over and be like, "are you a lesbian" [laughs]. And I'd be like, no oh my goodness, no I'm straight but ally, and she was like "hmm okay" and she did this for many years, just like a check-in, with me being like no grandma I'm straight, ally! And then I remember, I was in college, I had been in college for about two years. Um and it was summer of 2018, I was in the car with my grandmother and I was thinking about the relationships that I have had with women my entire life. I would get 00:06:00super close to a girl, and we would become best friends and we would say things like, "If I was gay I would date you. If we were gay, we would be girlfriends. I love you so much." Um and I had a friend like that at university as well, and I think it just hit me that oh, I am gay, like I am not a straight woman, um and I just remember looking over at my grandmother and being like, "I think I'm pansexual" and her looking at me and being like "Okay, what is that." And then we had a conversation about my sexuality and it was like and it was like a, it just hit me, and I just like was able to have a conversation with my grandmother 00:07:00about it immediately. And that's something I will always be so thankful for because I know that that's not something that a lot of people get so it's definitely like a highlight of my life.

AW: Um another one is, once again being in college. College is really just an eye opening experience, [laughs] or at least it was for me. I found a lot about myself and it was due to the people I surrounded myself with um and uh learning and being more educated and hearing things and being like, oh my gosh that sounds like me. Um so also in college I realized that I am non-binary and it took me a long time to come to terms with this because I have always been a person who never wants to overstep boundaries and claim to be something that I'm not. So, I, it took a lot of like learning and reading and listening to my 00:08:00friends who did identify as non-binary to realize, well that's me, and I just remember that struggle for me, and, as it went on for probably a year and a half, and it was like I had to accept things in like small doses. An then a year and half later I'm just like, okay, yes I identify as non-binary, but it's not something that I discuss with like acquaintances or coworkers. Um I feel like it, like I am unaffected by um being recognized as just a woman by people I don't know. And I think that that's very interesting for me because I know that 00:09:00it's uh, it can be very damaging for a lot of non-binary people to be misgendered or just unseen, and um it's something that I don't need with the public, I get, I get all of the confirmation that I need from my friends and family, so.

JD: So what do you think have been the biggest challenges, then, so far in your life?

AW; the biggest challenges in general?

JD: Yeah.

AW: In general,okay. Oh, okay well, one of my biggest challenges in life um is my disability. I have something called cerebral palsy and most people hear cerebral palsy and think about people who are in wheelchairs and um partially or 00:10:00mostly paralyzed, physically paralyzed, but my cerebral palsy manifested differently and it's a more mild case, where the right side of my body was mildly paralyzed due to a stroke that I had when I was in my mother's womb. And my family did not know about this until I started trying to walk and my grandparents realized that I was dragging my right leg around and not walking properly and then they realized oh my goodness, there's something wrong and we had to go to the hospital. Ta-da, cerebral palsy. [laughs]

AW: I've been very lucky that I had adults who were paying attention and caught 00:11:00it early because from that moment on, for the rest of my childhood, I was in physical therapy off and on. So I was able to gain some strength in my right leg and my right arm, but to this day, the right side of my body is a lot weaker than the left side of my body, and there are a lot of physical things that are a lot tougher for me to do because of that disability. Um, I've had people reject me from things, I've had people just simply think I'm not capable of doing things because of it, and that affects, that affected my mental health more than my physical health, every time, because I have been able to do things that I was told I was never gonna be able to do. I played multiple sports, um, high- high 00:12:00contact sports, I played rugby for five years. Rugby is like the most high contact sport you can play. [laughs]

AW: After doctors told me that I would never be able to play such a sport, I went and did it, but having people repeatedly tell you, "you can't do that, are you sure? Are you sure that you can do that? Is it safe? I don't know--" it can be very damaging to like your self-esteem and your like mental health, so that is something I've struggled with my entire life, and to this day, I try my best to not let people know that I even have it um and I get comments from people who pay a little more attention. Like "your hand looks a little odd, you walk like a little bit funny" and I've gotten those comments my whole life as well, and I 00:13:00just try to [laughs] avoid that real conversation, and just be like oh hahaha you're so right, like how weird. Um, because it's, it's never done me any good to try and explain it to people, it like it doesn't help the situation so that's, that's one of the hardest things I've had to deal with in my life, one of the most challenging things.

JD: So through that challenge then, who has been your sources, like your source of strength, then.

AW: My source of strength has definitely been my grandparents, they never stopped me from trying the things that I wanted to try due to my disability, we would have, uh, talks about like safety and um reaching out when I did need help, and you know working to strengthen um the right side of my body, but they 00:14:00were always there and they always believed that if I wanted to I could. And so I think, while the outside world was like, um I don't think so, having my grandparents behind me saying yes, you can, is what really got me through it.

JD: Okay, so um, just to kind of get some origin, kind of where you're from. Um, when and where were you born?

AW: I was born, [laughs] I was born on September 10, 1998 in Knoxville, Tennessee.

JD: So where did you grow up then?

AW: I grew up in a small town about an hour away from Knoxville, and that town was called Athens, Tennessee.

JD: Okay, and uh where are you currently living?

AW: I am currently living in San Antonio, Texas.

JD: Okay, so what made you decide on San Antonio then?

AW: So I, I spent the entirety of my childhood in Athens, Tennesse and despite its uh phrase the friendly city, I did not find it to be very friendly. Um, so when it was time to go to university I packed up along with my grandparents and we moved to West Tennessee. So I spent five years in West Tennessee to go to college and I knew about halfway through that I wanted to move to San Antonio. And I knew I wanted to move to San Antonio because I have been visiting San Antonio since I was about eight or nine, because I have aunts who live here, and 00:16:00I would visit them every summer and at Christmas time so I've had many years to get used to the city and find out that I love it and what it has to offer me. Um, especially grad school I plan on going to grad school at the University of Texas at San Antonio. That is partially why I moved here. Another reason is, I wanted to spend more time with my aunts, because we are very close and I wanted to experience city life for the first time. I have never lived in a big city and San Antonio is one of the biggest in the country. But it's, it's a place I know, it's a place that people I know live in, and it still has a homey feel despite being super big.

JD; So how often have you moved homes then?

AW: I have moved stable homes three times

JD: And what was it like growing up in Athens?

AW: My, my house, in Athens, my grandparents house was my sanctuary, it was my safe place. It was the best place on earth to me but Athens, Tennessee the city was one of the worst places in the world for me. It was very hard growing up there, because I knew immediately that I did not really fit in. And I had friends um throughout my childhood. Um I had, I had groups of friends, I could even say I had a lot but I always know that I was just a little different, and 00:18:00it was like I was a little too different. Um I really only have one friend that I talk to consistently from that time in my life, and it was from high school. And the only reason we still talk is because we decided to grow together and we were similar in the fact that we were both different so it was not a place for me to really learn more about myself, it was not a place to grow, it felt more like I was just surviving until I was able to get out. Uh small town, small towns have their charm, but they also have so many underlying issues that a lot of people don't realize if they don't live there.

JD: So how do you think growing up there shaped your identity like as a person?

AW: I think it was, [sighs] oddly enough parts of it were not helpful at all, but parts of it were extremely beneficial because I learned a lot about the kind of person I did not want to be. And I was able to look at the people that lived there and that I had to interact with and be like, hmm that's not right, I don't like that I'm not gonna act like that. So, in some ways it was terrible because I was not connecting with most people, but in other ways it really helped me grow a lot faster than other people did.

JD: Um can you describe a little bit about your grandparent's home, you said it was like a safe haven, so can you like describe a little bit more about how it was.

AW: Yes, so my house was on the outskirts of the town, it was like a two-minute 00:20:00drive from downtown but we didn't have neighbors. We lived on five acres of land, part of it being woods and we lived on like a small farm. So, we, the house sat on top of a hill, and you had to go up this long winding driveway to get up to the house and I remember looking down, I mean looking up at it from the street, and it was like just being like a shining beacon, because it was just like the best place in the world. We had a barn um out back, we had gardens where um we grew vegetables and like sunflowers we had a huge backyard for our 00:21:00dogs, we had so many big beautiful trees. And I think the biggest part was this house was not just a safe place for me, but it was a safe place for a lot of my friends growing up as well. A lot of my friends spent a lot of time at my house and connecting with my grandparents and getting um that love and attention from my grandparents that they weren't necessarily getting at their own homes um, and I obviously was getting that same love and attention, and it was something I needed desperately so having that stability, having that space, and having the people in the house is what all made that home a sanctuary to me. JD: And can 00:22:00you describe your family structure a little bit?

AW: Yeah absolutely, so I was raised by my grandparents, and this is very interesting because I was raised by my grandfather on my dad's side or so it's my dad's father and I was raised by my step-grandmother, so my grandmother is not my dad's biological mom she is his stepmom so she's my step-grandmother, so there's no blood relation but she, I view both my grandparents as my mom and my dad. They have been with me since before I can even remember. Um, they have been by my side and fought for me my entire life. So they are my parents.

JD: Did you have any siblings growing up?

AW: I have one sibling that I know. I am certain that I have a few more out in the world that I, I do not know them, but I do know my half brother on my dad's side. And we never lived together, my brother lived with his mother, but I did get to see him sometimes growing up.

JD: Okay, so what do you think that the word family means to you then?

AW: Family are the people who show up and stay through hard times. Family are 00:24:00people who are supportive and want you to be the best you possible. Who are honest with you and want to see you grow. It has nothing to do with blood. It has nothing to do with heritage, it has to do with who's there for you and who, who is true.

[laughs]

JD: Um so where did you end up going to primary and secondary school?

AW: So I went to, okay, so it was really interesting, uh back in my day, I am only 23 but it is. School is different now than it was when I was in school. Um 00:25:00back in my day in the town of Athens, there was a school called Ingle Side, where you would go from kindergarten to third grade. So I went there from first grade through third grade. And then you would move up you, there are two options, you could go to West Side or uh North City, so I went to North city for fourth grade through sixth grade and that's like those are my primary years and then at that point there were still things called junior highs so I went to Athens Junior High for seventh and eighth grade. And then, instead of going to the county's high school uh, I, my grandmother sent in an application for me to 00:26:00go to an out, an out of county high school that focused a little bit more on academics and I got in so I went to Walker Valley High School for secondary.

JD: How would you describe your experience in primary school?

AW: Primary school definitely had its ups and downs, um I was going through a lot of um mini struggles in my personal life, which I think could be reflected a little bit in my school life but I remember always seeing school as an opportunity to have a good life, so I took, I took school pretty seriously um as did my grandparents. Um, I remember going into first grade after having not 00:27:00truly gone to kindergarten due to the situation I was in with my mother and being so upset I went home and began the first grade to my grandmother and she [laughs] always tells the story, she said you came home and you said "I can't read and I don't have any friends," and she said she remembered just breaking down that day and sobbing because I was so aware that I was behind. And she said from that moment she was determined to fix it so, lucky, lucky for me, I once again had grandparents who cared about me. I was put into a reading program with a reading specialist and not only did I learn how to read but I became one of the best readers in my school. And I think that that really just helped me 00:28:00succeed throughout school because not only was I driven, but I was, I also had discipline, partially my own and then partially because I had my grandparents behind me being like, "Oh, you are going to do this, and you're going to do this correctly." And, but they wouldn't just tell me to do things they would, they would do things with me and teach me how to do things, and so my school in terms of academics were great. Socially, I struggled some, I feel like I always joke around with my friends [laughs], and I say every year, I would have one outburst, one crazy outburst, so in first grade, it was like taking a boy's cupcake and lying about it, and in second grade I would beat up a boy for being mean to my best friend and in third grade I bit a boy um for taking my pencil, 00:29:00but in all fairness, I did tell him if he took my pencil I'd bite him, so I communicated in that situation and he, and he had to deal with the consequences. In fourth grade, I cut a girl's hair. In fifth grade, I can't remember. In sixth grade, I threw a girl against a wall for touching me after I asked her to stop multiple times, but it was, it was just this theme of like I would do one thing a year, and then I'd be good until the next year. Um so behaviorally, I would say it could have been a lot worse. Um my teachers were always surprised when I would have that one outburst so maybe I was just maybe [sighs], maybe I'm biased and I was worse than I thought I was but it was, it was okay, elementary school was okay, primary school, it was alright.

JD: What would you say your most memorable experience from high school was then.

AW: Oh that's a good question, the most memorable. This is gonna make me sound so bad. [laughs]

AW: But I remember it was my senior year, it was spring of senior year, I was in AP Literature class and I was tired, and I was tired, I was so tired and um a fact about me before I get into it is that I didn't really have to try a lot in high school. All of that prepping throughout elementary and middle school really made most of high school a breeze for me. There were only a couple of classes I ever really had to work in to get what I wanted. Um and this AP Literature class 00:31:00was not one of those. I could just barely, barely be there and still get it done and I remember everyone had to read Wuthering Heights. And I was busy reading the Percy Jackson series, I did not have time to read Wuthering Heights, I simply did not want to. But we came into class one day and the teacher said I'm going to call yuou up one at a time to ask you a question about the book um to verify that you've read it. And I was in the AP Literature class with my small group of friends, because we all have, we all took the same classes. And so they're lookingat me laughing because they are very aware that I did not read 00:32:00this book and I was about to have to go up to the front and answer questions, um. So obviously I get called to the front and I am sweating on the inside,and sweating, I'm freaking out, I'm like, here we are, crap. And she asked me "why do you think so and so is an anit-hero." And I just remember pulling the best answer out of my ass. And my friends sitting behind the teacher in complete and utter shock that I was pulling this off. Because the teacher was like [gasps] "oh that's a good point, that's a fair point, like that you really have thought 00:33:00about the text" and I'm like, thank you, I have. It, I just remember, I remember that so vividly because my friends like, I went and sat back down after I answered the questions and my friends were like you are actually insane we have no idea how you did that, but you did it. And I think that you're actually insane just carried with me throughout the rest of my life, mm hmm I'm like maybe I am and to this day most of my friends think I am insane.

JD: Yeah and you mentioned college briefly, so you attended college after high school?

AW: Yes, immediately after.

JD: Okay so where and what year did you start college.

AW: I went to university at um, it was the University of Tennessee at Martin and 00:34:00I started in fall of 2016.

JD: What influenced your decision to attend UT Martin.

AW: Um it was, I was heavily influenced by my grandfather he felt it extremely important that I have a degree from an accredited university that was known well, but he did not want me going to university as big as say UTK or UTC, both of which are known for being not the safest so he found the University of Tennessee at Martin, and Martin [laughs], is this tiny little town in the middle of nowhere. Where nothing ever happens. So my grandfather was like perfect 00:35:00you're going there, and being a 17 year old child I was like, okay. And that's how I ended up there.

JD: So what was your experience like moving to UT Martin?

AW: I found moving to be difficult, but very rewarding. It was, it was hard to say goodbye to my home and my friends at that time, um and moving somewhere where I did not know a single person. That was hard, but what I got out of it was super rewarding.

JD: Can you explain a little bit more about like the rewards that you found because of UT Martin?

AW: Absolutely, I found probably the greatest group of people in the entire world [laughs] and together we, we grew into people we could be proud of. And um, I was able to become someone that I like and I had experiences with my friends that I will never forget, I will cherish them forever.

JD: You think having that group of friends kind of shaped your identity in a way?

AW: [laughs] for sure [laughs] For sure, um, even now that I'm separated from them, as you are all back East um I see, I see them in things that I do and 00:37:00things that I say um I sometimes even sound like them. Like I, [laughs] I have this habit of picking accents when I'm around people and I, I clearly do not have a very thick country accent, I do not have a very thick Tennesseean accent but um some of my friends do.[laughs] And so I, I tend to pick it up and even now, sometimes it will slip out and I'll be like oh I just sounded like so and so or I'll do something and then I'll be like oh my gosh so and so does that, that's so funny. Um, it's a lot of mannerisms and um ideals and uh just beliefs, 00:38:00and that we all have because we spent so much time together.

JD: Yeah, and how do you think university shaped your sexuality and your gender?

AW: I definitely think it would have taken me a lot longer to realize my sexuality and gender if I did not have my friends at university. Um, being around LGBTQ people all day every day will really just open your eyes to a lot of things [laughs], so I, I would say a big reason why I know who I am is because of my time at university.

JD: So when you say you surrounded yourself with people from the LGBTQ community, all of your friends, um were they?

AW: Yes, Yes, um it's, it's like we, we came to realizations together, I was 00:39:00not, I was not the only friend who like learned about themselves during this time. But spending all that time together and learning things together, we were each able to just realize things about ourselves, and I don't know if I would have had that opportunity if I was not around those people.

JD: And what undergraduate degree, did you receive after graduating from UT Martin?

AW: I have a degree in education, specifically um teaching kindergarten through fifth grade.

JD: Okay, and was that the original uh degree that you were aiming for, when you went into college?

AW: Not at all, when I started college, I was, I was still in education, but it was secondary English.

JD: Could you explain a little bit more about that program?

AW: Um, so obviously, the difference between secondary and primary is, the age is like one of the biggest, secondary I was going in thinking that I was going to be teaching high school students and thinking that I was only going to be teaching them English. Um, which by the way, quick note, going into education at my university was one of the hardest things that I've ever done and looking back probably could have gone somewhere else and gotten um a better a better deal because the, the university, I went to, once again in the middle of nowhere, it focused heavily on agriculture [laighs]. So certain departments, like the education department were not as funded or taken care of, so being in education 00:41:00at my specific university, was very difficult at some times. Um, but I, I, I made the jump, from secondary english to uh primary K through 5 um, you know I really can't even tell you why, it, it's something that I felt [laughs]. Like I don't think there's any like one specific thing that happened um or anything like that I think it was just like an, an accumulation of multiple thoughts and feelings both conscious and subconscious that made me realize, I wanted to be a primary school teacher.

JD: And did you get a uh, job right after graduating uh undergraduate school?

AW: I did not, so making that move [laughs] from Tennessee to Texas took a lot 00:42:00of planning um and also it took holding off on certain things. I had to change my Tennessee uh teaching license to a Texas one and go through that entire um situation, so I didn't, I did not start. I didn't I did not start a school system until the fall of 2021, which some people would say is immediately after, after um college, but I started as a full time substitute at a middle school, because I was still um in the process of getting everything, all my licensing switched over to Texas, so I did not start um a job in my field until the end of 00:43:00January of this year.

JD: And do you, you still work there currently?

AW: I currently work at uh, Urban Elementary school in downtown San Antonio as a first grade teacher

JD: And how, how did you attain that position, because you said you started as a a substitute teacher.

AW: Yes, so I knew that I, I did not want to stay at the middle school and I needed to get going, so once I got my license I started looking around for primary school job opportunities, and it was very hard going at first, I was like what's going on, like am I going to be jobless? But interestingly enough at 00:44:00the end of December, I got an email from um the district I'm currently working in saying that they needed um teachers so they were going to have a job fair um at the beginning of January. So I took that as a sign [laughs], and I went to that job fair and I was super nervous because I've never done anything like that, where I had to basically um sell myself as like uh as a teacher who was worthy of being hired. So I was very, very nervous and [sighs] honestly very awkward [laughs] going up to different schools' booths and introducing myself and giving them my resume and just like explaining a little bit about me and I 00:45:00was really like this is not working out well. Until I went to I went to my school's booth and the woman there was, like, I want to interview you right now, so at the job fair I got interviewed by, who I found out after the interview, was the principal of the school [laughs] and she told me that she really, really liked me and that she thought I would be a really good fit and a week later, I had a job.

JD: And can you describe your fields of interest in teaching?

AW: So my my specialty is um reading and literacy and it comes from a very personal um background, uh as I said earlier, when I started first grade, I 00:46:00could not read and that really affected me. It was really upsetting,um and it was due to a reading specialist that I was able to read and I want to be able to give that to children. Um I want, I want to create amazing readers because, being able to read is everything in this world you can't do anything without it.

JD: And how has teaching impacted your life so far?

AW: It is very challenging. very , very, very challenging especially in a low socio economic school, but it is one of the most rewarding things that I feel like I could do with my life.

JD: And what has been your most memorable experience so far, in teaching?

AW: [laughs] Hoh, I was giving a monthly um test to students to see how, how much information they were retaining from what we had been learning for that prior month and I was testing one of my um lowest academic students, so this student uh is not able to read at all, he has zero reading ability, but this test is given orally, so I read everything to them, and they answer the questions that's in front of 'em so they so they have the paper, I have the paper i'm reading the passages and the questions, they're answering on on their paper. And this student who has been low academically all year and who is not 00:48:00able to read only missed one question on his reading test. And I just remember, being so proud of him, and what he had accomplished since I had started, because I did not start until late January. These students have not had like structure their entire school year, they've had they had about four teachers before they got me. And it, it was very hard for them, but to see that growth in him, one of my lowest academically, just felt amazing. And seeing him light up at the fact 00:49:00that he was able to something like that was also just incredible because what a lot of people don't know is that, being able to read and reading comprehension go hand in hand, so most of the time, if you can't read you cannot comprehend. And if you cannot comprehend, you cannot read, but this little boy who could not read at all, was able to comprehend everything I was reading to him. And that's a win, for someone like him who is struggling, day in and day out, and just seeing him be so excited, it just, it made me so warm and being able to tell his parents after school like what he did and seeing their faces light up it, it was just an incredible feeling I will never forget it.

JD: Do you think teaching has shaped or restricted your identity in any way?

AW: Uh both. Both, I think um teaching is a part of my identity, it's, it's, its not, teaching is really not a day job, it's like an all the time job, people don't really think about that, but being a teacher, you're kind of always a teacher you don't, you can't just turn it off, we don't only work within the hours that we're at the school um so being a teacher is part of who I am um but also, I have to um, I don't wanna say hide, but I have to, I, I guess I will say hide, I have to hide parts of myself, while I'm at work because a lot of people still think um that it's not appropriate or okay, um and I feel lucky that my 00:51:00school in general is more open minded and um my coworkers are more open minded and the families are, but there are parts of myself, such as being non binary that would not go well in some situations at work. So those, those types of things do inhibit me as a person, I guess.

JD: Yeah, are there any other aspects of your identity you feel like you have to conceal while you're at work?

AW: Um, I, I feel like I am a much more toned down version of myself in general at work but like most people are [laughs] most people cannot go to their job and 00:52:00just fully be 100% of themselves, otherwise, none of us would have a job [laughs]. So yes, you know my teacher self and my personal self, they, they intertwine, they mix, but they also have their differences and um it's like I wear multiple hats, people say all the time, teachers wear multiple hats, we do. So, like sometimes I'm wearing my teacher hat and sometimes i'm not. So it's, I don't, I don't view it as having to like alter myself necessarily, it's just a different part of myself.

JD: And what other jobs have you had so far in your career?

AW: Um [laughs] In education I have only been a full time substitute and now a 00:53:00first grade teacher um but in general i've, i've been working on and off, since I was 16. So when I was 16 I work at a frozen yogurt shop in Athens, um a little bit illegally [laughs], because I was there by myself, most of the time. At the age of 16 and that's not really allowed um and then I worked um at Rue 21 for a short time in high school and then during college, I worked at Sonic for a very short period of time and I worked at my university's um recreational center for a while, um and I want to say, and then, when I moved, when I moved to San Antonio I got a job at Lane Bryant which I worked at until about the middle of 00:54:00March this year, so.

JD: So how do you think all of those experiences have shaped you?

AW: I mean customer service [laughs], we all know how customer service is and how you learn to deal with interesting characters. So I feel like my time in customer service has helped me learn how to deal with interesting parents and interesting people in general. I'm able to handle a lot of crazy.

JD: So what do you think has been your most beneficial work experience?

AW: My most beneficial work experience to what I'm doing now is most obviously 00:55:00being a full time substitute at a middle school, but I feel like that's cheating [laughs] so prior to that, hm, it was probably, it, it was probably working at lane bryant, which is a clothing store for plus size women, um I learned how to deal with management and coworkers and customers at that job and a very interesting group of managers, coworkers, and customers. Um, so I feel like having that has helped me learn how to communicate with the coworkers at my 00:56:00school and the administration at my school and parents of my students.

JD: And, did you have a dream job?

AW: I am doing my dream job. Now, do I romanticize owning a bookshop that has a cafe in it and living upstairs, like above the bookshop yes, yes, I do but I'm doing what I love, so this is my dream job. JD: Um, could you describe a little bit about your experience as a member of the LGBTQ community?

AW: Yes, [laughs] um most of my experiences are honestly with my group of 00:57:00friends from university so most of them have been awesome. Like I feel so lucky to be able to say that but being able to just be myself around the people that mean the most to me was like phenomenal. We, we had discussions, uh we even had situations where we didn't all agree on something, but at the end of the day we all understood that we all respect people for who they are, um so I was, I was never like mistreated or um judged harshly for being who I was and because I'm so reserved um if, if there are people who I don't want to tell I just don't tell them and that's been working out for me. So, most of my experiences, 00:58:00personally, as someone in the LGBT community have been good. But I know that, like, if I were to branch out [laughs], it would get worse.

JD: So, uh, let's see, how was your coming out experience and who did you come out to?

AW: I, so I came out to my grandmother in the car first when when I when I let her know that I thought I was pansexual and she took that like a champ like just a total champ she was like, she was like okay finally you finally realized it and I was like okay, sorry it took me so long. But you know she, she had the feeling, before I even did so, and my grandparents have always been very open minded people. Um so I'm safe with my family at least my uh close family and 00:59:00then telling my friends was just as easy because most of them had realized at that point that they were also in the LGBT community [laughs]. Um so they, they celebrated me when when I, when I told them they're like, finally yay! Um, so I feel like I've not really had um a situation where I've told someone about my sexuality and identity and it, and it's been received negatively, but I think that's mostly because I'm very particular on who I tell.

JD: So, how did you feel after coming out?

AW: [sighs] Awake, if that makes sense, I felt awake like, oh there I am. That 01:00:00adds up, that makes sense.

JD: So, how did you feel about coming out as non binary since it was later than your pansexuality?

AW: Um, that was, that was harder for me, I had friends talking to me and trying to um make me feel comfortable with the idea and uh just trying to be super supportive but it, it took me a while to get there because I knew that like once I, once I accepted that there's no there's no going back from it, I couldn't be like just kidding like, I'm cis, so it was harder for me, but it was, it was for 01:01:00personal reasons that I, I don't even to this day, fully understand. I just had like hang ups about it um but it was also accepted by my friend group and while my grandparents do not understand uh non binary in it's full definition, they are totally supportive of me being whoever I want to be. So, it's, it's not been bad once I, once I accepted it. JD: So what was it like being a student who identified as pansexual, especially in a small rural town?

AW: Um so me and my friend group, I, it gonna sound so funny but you, you would see us walking and just know, like that's a group of homosexuals. Um so we 01:02:00obviously stood out at this tiny university in this tiny town um and, as a group we did have a couple of run ins, with people, but because we had each other, it was never, it was never too much for us. And I feel really lucky for that, because I cannot imagine being a pansexual person in a small town at a small university without that support system. That would have been terrible, but i'm really lucky that I did have that so.

JD: Can you describe a little bit more about the negative reactions that you guys got?

AW: [clears throat]Yes, um comments from, from peers, who were clearly not as educated um about the topics, slurs being used towards us, um even like gestures 01:03:00uh were received sometimes. Um, in the moment it feels terrible but like I, it's hard, it's hard to remember a lot of them now because I, I had that support, and so did my friends. Like nothing could affect us taht badly if we had each other.

JD: I see, So what are your experiences with romantic relationships then?

AW: I have only ever been in romantic relationships with men. So I've gone on for years, knowing that I'm pansexual without ever been in a different type of, 01:04:00different type of relationship and and I would say that that has a lot to do with um my anxiety and my trauma [laughs]. So I from a young age, I was sexualized by men or boys at that time. Um when I started growing and they started growing um I could not hide from them. And so, from a young age, I learned how to interact with men um in hopes of, I don't know at that time part, part of it was probably me wanting the attention and the, and the other part of me was probably just trying to survive the attention. Um but it all, it all led to me being very good at dealing with men, and so I, I got comfortable with 01:05:00dealing with men. Where areas I don't have that comfort with people of any other gender because I've just never had the opportunity, especially when I was younger so everything now is new and new things for me [laughs]. Especially when it comes to like romance can be very stressful, and my last relationship ended in the summer of 2019, but it was a very traumatic relationship. And the end of it was even more traumatic and so I've not been able to like even really think about branching out since then, because I'm still dealing with that trauma.

JD: So have you attended any events associated with your identity, such as pride festivals or meetings?

AW: I have not attended a pride festival yet, but that is on my list of things to do this summer. Um when I was in high school before I knew, I was a part of the Gay Straight Alliance at my high school that was illegal because my school did not want to stir the pot, and we did it anyway. So, in terms of that I, I worked a lot with that group, but it was when I thought myself to be straight, so I don't know if you're really counts [laughs].

JD: Do you think events like that, like pride or group, groups are inclusive of everyone in the Community?

AW: Hmm, sometimes. Sometimes they're not sometimes they are sometimes they're 01:07:00not. Um it's hard to say whether or not like a say a pride festival is inclusive, because you are having all of these different people coming together, that is, the festival, so it depends on the kind of people who show up and like what they consider to be inclusive.So what's inclusive, to me, is probably not inclusive to someone else or it's like too inclusive to someone else and I guess it's, it, that's a very gray area do I think that the LGBT community should be more inclusive absolutely. I think um a lot of people try to compare plights of 01:08:00groups of people and that never that never goes well because we're all oppressed at the end of the day, but certain groups are um not as seen.

JD: And how do you feel people with the same or similar, similar identity to yours were represented in the media growing up?

AW: Um they weren't [laughs]. Um simple as that they were not. Um, I actually just recently started rewatching Pretty Little Liars and uh I realized uh Pretty Little Liars came out in 2010. So we're talking a hot second ago and one of the main characters is a woman of color and in the first season, she comes out as a lesbian, but like they don't say the word lesbian. Like she, she said, " I am 01:09:00gay, I am gay, I am gay, I like women, I forced myself to like men, I'm gay, but never I am a lesbian" right? And lesbians have been more well known at that time than pansexual peope were and they wouldn't even say lesbian so, I, there is definitely no representation for pansexual or non- binary people when I was growing up.

JD: So how about now?

AW: Uh, it's still rough out here [laughs]. We're seeing, we're starting to get the LGBT community in general is starting to get representation, but it's not in 01:10:00copious amounts. Like if, there's not a plethora of representation happening, and a lot of the times the representation, could be a lot better than it is, so I'm happy that it's starting, but my expectations are a lot higher than what they're giving. Like serve me something good.

JD: And has your queer identity affected your safe- uh your perception of personal safety or your safety just in general?

AW: Yes, I think so um when I, when I came to terms to the fact that I was non binary um, it, it, uh it did, it did change some things about me. This is gonna sound funny but I look more gay now than I used to um and that's due to I think how I present myself and also like how I dress. Um, I can be super feminine, but 01:11:00I can also be super androgynous and I surround myself with women or feminine presenting people most of the time so there, especially in, in university there was more of uh, like a watching to make sure that, like nothing bad happened to me or my friends, because of who we were because it was just pretty obvious [laughs] that we were different, but now that I live in a big city um that is very uh liberal, it is not as huge of a concern anymore, I feel like I blend in more here.

JD: So what is your current religious standing at this moment?

AW: [laughs] Um.

JD: Or, or spirituality, that is also up in the air.

AW: I would say that, I would identify myself as pagan, and I am very spiritual. And I have, I have gods that I like to um learn about and um interact with but I am not gonna be held by a set of rules if that makes sense, my morals do not hinge on my religious beliefs.

JD: And has your spirituality been impacted by your sexuality or gender you think?

AW: No [laughs], I have been, I have been like this, since I was tiny, um it was another reason why growing up in Athens was so hard, where the majority of people were uh Christian. Um and everyone knew that I was not, so that uh really has nothing to do it, they are very disconnected. My spirituality and my identity as pansexual and non binary.

JD: Were you raised religious?

AW: I, no. I was not uh raised in a certain religion my grandparents found it 01:14:00very important that I'd be able to decide that for myself. Um all that they ever asked me was that I learned about multiple kinds of religions, before I made a decision on any one. Now I did go to church often when I was young because, like I said I lived in a small town where everyone was Christian and that was a way to hang out with friends. So I, I did spend uh a good amount of time in church, but I was never raised a certain way. I got to make my own decisions.

JD: So do you think that your spirituality and beliefs have changed over the course of time?

AW: For sure I mean, as you grow, um your thoughts and ideas and opinions change too right, um so I mean, I remember, at one point I thought that I was an atheist, and then I thought I was agnostic and now I'm pagan. It's like I grow 01:15:00so my, my beliefs change. So it's just how it goes.

JD: And do you currently practice any traditions related to your faith or spirituality?

AW: I, I am, I identify as a witch, so there are obviously certain things that can come with that, so there are some things that I partake in sometimes I have to do with that, but uh nothing set there's like I don't have a set schedule for anything it's all, it's all about the vibes. It's all about the vibes.

JD: And do you have any traditions that you follow just as, as a person, I guess?

AW: I mean I celebrate, uh all the holidays Christmas, I I do Christmas with my families, Valentine's day even you know with, with my students, St Patrick's day. I do Halloween I love Halloween. I love Halloween. So yeah I do, I do all of the, all the like, average holidays that people do here. Um, but other than that it's it's just what I want or what I need when I want or need it.

JD: And how do you celebrate some of those traditions, maybe some of your favorite?

AW: Uh, for Halloween it really just depends on the year what's happening, who I'm with, I know, when I was at university like the biggest thing for me and my 01:17:00friend group we would go to like haunted houses, maybe, maybe dress up, it wasn't anything too serious. Um but then like one year, my best friend from East Tennessee came and we like celebrated like the harvest and, like the, the end of autumn and we ate like certain pagan foods, and it was like a good time. Um it just it just depends this past year, and we saw a movie. It really, it just depends.

JD: And do you uh have any hobbies that you participate in or activities?

AW: My biggest hobby is reading. I love to read. I love to read things for uh 01:18:00joy, so I spent a lot of my personal time reading for enjoyment um I've always been like that, I've always loved to read throughout school and then, when I went to university. University was difficult and it stopped, and then I graduated and I got back into reading and it's one of my favorite things to do. Um I'm also a cat owner and I have uh seven cats, so I stay with them. I also own a beta fish so I spend a lot of time doing stuff with him and I recently adopted two red eared slider turtles um, so I spend the majority of my time currently with them and learning about them and just becoming educated about them, so I can provide them with a good life so they're kind of like like part 01:19:00of my personality, at this point.

JD: Okay, and in what ways do you that think your involvement with um, with these hobbies or traditions kind of shaped your identity within the queer community?

AW: Well I think, I just I feel like loving animals is like a, a sign in every person like, how do you treat animals like, how do you view them like what do you think about them um because a lot of the times you're going to treat people the same way, like people people don't connect that but it's true so I try to surround myself with queer or not people who have the same views I do about 01:20:00animals because I find that it's easier to connect if we have that in common, if we do not have that in common it's, it's not going to work so um in a weird way, like my relationship with my pets and how I feel about animals in general, it it does influence me in the queer community, and reading it could be the same thing, like the way that I uh learned so much about where I am was because I read about it and I became educated about it, I I don't really like being around intentionally uneducated people. Um so that's also affected like who I am and who I am in regards to the queer community because I'm not going to even really 01:21:00want to have discussions with someone who refuses to learn. You know, and you learn by reading.

JD: Okay, and you said you were comfortable discussing your health, right? Just double checking.

AW: Absolutely.

JD: Alright cool, so do you have any, you have uh cerebral palsy, um do you have any other illnesse or disabilities that have affected your daily life?

AW: I have uh mental health issues that um do, do affect me. I um, I have depression and I have um anxiety and I also have uh obsessive compulsive disorder.

JD: And in what ways, do you think that has affected your daily life?

AW: I'm a perfectionist. It's definitely a partially due to the OCD um it also affects how I'm able to interact with people and things um and I, I do things that are odd to other people and that's because they are a little bit odd like I have to have things a certain way, um sometimes it's my way or the highway and luckily, the people I'm close to know all of this about me and they're accepting of it and it's not an issue but it takes adjustment for me and for other people when it's in different situations, like at work, sometimes I mask it as something else, like because I don't need everyone to know what, what I, what I deal with in my personal life, even though it does come into like my work life, 01:23:00little bit. It's not anyone else's responsibility to deal with it it's my responsibility, so we keep that on lock.

JD: So, how did you learn how to cope with these uh mental illnesses?

AW: Therapy, therapy, therapy, years and years and years of therapy. I've been, I was in therapy from about the age of eight all the way through seventeen I did not, I had consistent therapy from eight through seventeen. And then I had therapy on and off throughout college and even after college I've been in therapy it's really it's therapy and drugs. Like it's, it's okay to take medication like I, I take medication um for my depression and my anxiety and it 01:24:00really helps it, it just helps I'm able to get more done and stress less.

JD: And uh what was your experience like during the pandemic?

AW: Um [laughs].

JD: You can describe the beginning, um towards the end.

AW: So the pandemic was very, interesting I'm gonna say interesting because the pandemic started in the middle of the Semester and um I put my friend group of seven inside my two bedroom apartment. So there are some obvious stressors that come with that um in that there wasn't a lot of space and there were a lot of us 01:25:00and they weren't just, like they weren't just there to hang out like they were there twenty four seven. Um so obviously, that took some adjusting but at the same time, it was time with them that I will cherish forever because we just had to deal with each other, and we had to learn how to grow in that situation and I think we became better people because of it, I mean you know because you were in there. Um we just, we coped and I think we coped better because we were together. The pandemic, especially when we were all quarantined in the beginning was hard for everybody, but I feel lucky that I had some of the closest people 01:26:00to me in my life, there with me.

JD: Have you experienced covid?

AW: No, I have not experienced covid, I've had a couple of close calls, um but I have never tested positive.

JD: And do you think the pandemic has shaped your identity in any way?

AW: Um no, I don't think so, um but did it, did I start to have more opinions about things, due to the pandemic absolutely but, like my identity itself, it was pretty rock solid um when the pandemic started so if anything, the pandemic just made me more educated and have stronger opinions about certain topics like health care and people

JD: And do you follow any specific dietary guidelines or restrictions, we're into food now.

AW: Okay no, I do not.

JD: And do you have a passion for cooking?

AW: Absolutely not cooking makes me want to die.

JD: Alright, well, what, do you have a comfort food?

AW: Yes, yes, I do and um they people, a lot of people call it comfort foods, but for me and my situation I call them safe foods. Um and my safe food can change. Um so I usually have a safe food for like uh a certain amount of time and then I'll go to the next one. So right now my safe food is chicken korma 01:28:00from India Oven.

JD: Do you enjoy, oh yeah, do you enjoy backing?

AW: I do enjoy baking um, because it's uh nostalgic for me, I would spend many hours as a child baking and my grandmother. So a lot of good feelings when I'm baking.

JD: Okay, and you,and you did mention earlier that the pandemic made us think a little bit more about politics um how do you think politics have impacted the LGBTQ community?

AW: I honestly, oh God, okay, LGBT issues should not be political issues, to 01:29:00start off with. Like this, you know even really be a conversation and I don't know why anyone who's trying to dictate how we live our lives if they're not negatively affecting anyone else um so that's my first belief is that, politics have no, no, no rights to be an LGBT issues and LGBT issues shouldn't really be existing in politics, like everyone, everyone should have rights. And that's what it comes down to the rest of this is noise.

JD: And do you believe the governmental system we have in America is effective.

AW: Um no, and I'm not going to sit here and pretend that I have all the answers on how to make it better, but I think it's pretty clear, after the past two, three years or really since 2016 um that it's not working, it's not working and we need to change some things and dismantle some things and uh alter things in order for us to progress.

JD: And would you say that your current political views align or contrast with the areas that you currently live in?

AW: They align, so Texas, we all know Texas um very conservative state, very 01:31:00conservative, very conservative political and social beliefs, but San Antonio is like a liberal safehaven. So, I'm, I am the majority in my city.

JD: And do you consider yourself politically involved?

AW: Yes, I am not the most politically versed person, and I will not pretend that I am, yeah um but I would say that I am political.

JD: Um do you participate in any activist organizations?

AW: I consider myself an, an activist for black lives matter and an activist for the LGBT community I am, I, am I out here every day doing activists activities, 01:32:00no but I speak up. And I talk about what I believe in when the, when, when it comes up. I do not shy away from those topics at all.

JD: How do you think your activism has kind of changed over time, then?

AW: As I became an adult I uh became more more eloquent and I was able to hold a conversation and discussions, a lot better and also um, but on the other side of that token, token I become a lot less tolerant of um hatefulness so I, I will not, I will not try to talk down somebody who is only there to be hateful 01:33:00because that it, I'm going to lose that fight every time.

JD: How do you feel the political climate has changed around the queer community in your lifetime then?

AW: Oh it's gone up and down, up and down, I remember when um gay marriage got legalized. I was not even I was not even out at that point in my life, but I remember being so happy and excited and celebrating and getting a lot of backlash for that for, for just being happy that, like gay people were going to be able to marry and um I just, I mean, I remember everyone being so divided over something as simple as marriage and I feel like we've not really come much 01:34:00further than that. Like this country is so divided on everything, but it feels like every step forward or two it's two steps back it's like a fight for every little thing um so it's up and down.

JD: So what would you say that the current state of the queer community is today.

AW: I think, I think we are u,, wow, I think we are vocal, I think that we are demanding in what we know that we deserve. Um, but we are also still oppressed. 01:35:00If you identify as LGBT plus, you are still very much oppressed in today's society.

JD: So, what are your hopes and predictions for the future then?

AW: I mean my hopes are that a day comes, where this is a non discussion, you know where we can, where we can talk about it in history, we fought to get here, but now we are here and things are good. That's what everyone hopes for right. Um my prediction is that it's going to be a hell of a long time before we see big big moves, big changes um just because that's how it always is, it's, a 01:36:00utopia does not exist, so we're always there. they're always going to be struggles always.

JD: And, looking back on your life, what do you think you're most proud of?

AW: I'm most proud of, becoming who I am and being aware that 10 years from now, I will, some parts of who I am right now are still going to be with me but they're going to be new parts to me as well and that's okay. Just being aware of that and being okay with it and accepting it and um knowing that I'm trying my best to be a decent human. That's what I'm most proud of, because it is so easy 01:37:00to, it's so easy to um fall into bad habits and take the easy road and um just, just not be a super great person, it's so easy to not be a great person it's very, very hard to try and be a really good person. And I've been trying for years and I'm still trying and I'm not perfect, but I'm proud that I put in that effort.

JD: What is one lesson, you would pass down to future generations?

AW: Communicate, communicate, communication in all parts of your life is gonna be like the most important thing in the world is learning how to communicate. 01:38:00And you learn how to communicate, by reading. So read, read as much as you can.

JD: Do you have any goals for yourself?

AW: Goals for myself, um, let's see. I want to not only be content with my life but find satisfaction in it, even on the hardest days.

JD: Is there anything else you would like to say, or is there anything else you wanted me to ask that I didn't?

AW: I guess, I would say, to anyone who listens to this, um going, life is hard. 01:39:00Life is always going to be hard. For most people, you're going to have more downs and ups, more than likely and most days are going to be average, but if you find people who give you energy and love that makes life way more than worth it, it makes life phenomenal.

JD: Is there anything that you wanted me to ask that I didn't ask?

AW: I don't think so.